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Yes!!! Obamacare under attack!

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Shadow Master, Mar 24, 2010.

  1. C.Evans

    C.Evans Expert

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    Unfortunatley-andf I know this post is in jest but-yesterday as I was riding on a bus going cross town, two black people were wearing OLDD tshirts. Some of the slogans I read on them sounded exactly like what one might here in former (eh hem) communistt Russia-etc. One that really struck me was that the slogan-in part as I cant remember it-said: Redistribution of wealth is a greatly needed thing. I cant recall the other trash slogans I read on this one persons shirt but-every one of them was as much BS as the one i partially remember. Now, what I want to know is-just exactly whom is supposed to give up THEIR earnings in order to spread it around to others. Another think I wanna know is, that if that happens? just whom is going to be in charge of redistributing this wealth? and whom is going to be picked to recieve all of this redistributed (STOLEN) wealth?
     
  2. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

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    Hello Gotthard,
    I can only speak for myself on this matter, but will try to answer as best I can.

    The current system in place for our government is simply a two party system. Whichever party holds the majority, imposes it’s will on the people. When the Republican Party lost control of Congress, the Democratic Party took the votes of the people as an ideological shift to the left. I say this based upon what many of the congressional members say and do. IMO, it was a larger percentage of Independents expressing their disapproval with the way things were going. This is why Congress’ approval rating is below 20%. The people are simply unhappy with one party blocking anything the other try’s on the simple basis of loyal opposition. The problem is that the Republicans will most likely do the same come this fall, when still disgusted American’s vote the incumbents out of office. Our representatives are elected to vote for their constituents. Not decide what they think is best for them. I have no claim to expressing my dissatisfaction over a yes/no vote from a senator or Representative from say Oklahoma, only from my district.

    In regards to the matter of Health Care Reform, we simply do not know what it will entail. I went to the White House web-site and clicked on the FAQ’s for the bill. I received a message that said the page does not exist. How can I support anything when I am not being told precisely what it say’s. A few months ago I went to Congress’s website to try to read the bill in its entirety. It simply had a title page. No text at all of what the legislation was. Again, how can I support anything if I don’t know what it is?

    USA Today reported back in September that Annual Insurance rates for families are up over $13,000. This is a rate for employers. It is my understanding that employers get bulk discounts (I say this because the company I work for is debating our insurance provider over which employees we can cover at the discounted rates). It has been reported that companies with fewer than 20 employees are not required to cover people under this bill. That leaves these families to pay on their own for health insurance. According to healthreform.gov for my state of PA, the only number on lower premiums is for early retirees. This lower cost is an annual $1,200 savings if we take this across the board that still leaves families who need insurance to pay an annual premium of over $12,000. Many simply can not afford this. It is my opinion that insurance companies are not the problem, but the care providers (e.g. Hospitals). This bill simply overlooks this, which is disgraceful. Again, I am all for reform, but this was not the way to do it.


    http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2009-09-15-insurance-costs_N.htm
    http://www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/faq
    http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/statehealthreform/pennsylvania.html
     
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  3. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    The lower premiums are not for everybody. From what I've heard, it will only make the premiums cheaper for some people, about the same for a good proportion of people, and more expensive for a good number of people too...so not exactly 'cheaper' healthcare for all.

    Say, for instance, you pay $13,000 right now for your insurance premium. Obama-care comes about and now you have to pay $16,000 - how would you feel?
     
  4. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    Just like anything it's the middle of the middle class that gets hammered. Because they are the majority they are the ones that often bear the brunt of higher taxes.

    I think they need to hammer health care providers or give them a tax break for providing lower cost health care. Give them a tax break and then maybe we'll see lower medical expenses accross the board. Whatever happened to County Hospitals?
     
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  5. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Since I'm in Canada and have a clue what mess you've gotten yourselves in.

    Thank God I have Privet Insurance Plan.;) If your in a lower class income it's great does help out. But we have very long waiting lists.
    My Mother just waited over a year on a list for a Triple bypass Heart surgery which she's getting on Monday. I waited one year to see
    a surgeon for a simple Meniscus operation. I had no choice was covered by Workman's compensation or CSST! If I would of used my
    Insurance in two weeks I would of been Operated But would of been removed from CSST.

    The Quebec Government sends so many to the US to get Operated.
    Please note somethings are not covered by our Canadian health Care plan.

    A Yes to get an MRI In any Montreal Hospital 8 months waiting List. Only in Extreme emergencies you get one right away.

    With my privet insurance under a week I get One.
     
  6. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru WW2|ORG Editor

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    Didn't the Canadian PM recently go to Miami to have some sort of surgery? Like, Heart Surgery? Which would really back up Spaniards post (and kinda prove the Universal Healthcare is not a good idea).
     
  7. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Canadian PM Defends Choosing US for Heart Surgery.

    N.L. Premier Williams set to have heart surgery in U.S.

    Read more: http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2510700#ixzz0jDRqZ280






     
  8. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    What happened to the county hospitals? Many were closed because they went bankrupt, overrun by illegal aliens seeking treatment and to birth "anchor babies" that became US citizens immediately (w/ALL BENEFITS accorded), and the treating of the un-insured/un-employed who went there for every cough and sniffle. Not saying they should turn away those with injuries, but the flood gates were opened (illegal aliens allowed in and no alternative to seeking minor non-emergency treatment in emergecy rooms), and now it's too late to close them.
     
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  9. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    I guess there is that....
     
  10. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    What replaces them ? Or were they not replaced by the government?
     
  11. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    What replaces county hospitals? Nothing. They can't afford to stay open. The bigger hospitals in larger urban areas handle the load. They will face the same fate as the others sooner or later. If the government wanted to reform healthcare, then they should have looked at tort reform, then took on the pharmaceudical industry, then addressed the other problems that overwhelmed the system that functioned so well before, or created a system to cover those who had no coverage. Now we will have another frigging monster of a government run program that is probably not going to be any better than the other ones before like; reconstruction, prohibition, the Smoot-Hawley Tarriff Act, the National Industrial Recovery Act, the Vietnam War, The Great Society, FEMA and General Motors to name a few.

    But we have nothing to worry about. We have been saved by the government this time. We have nothing to fear now. Everything will be given to us. And it will not cost us anything because it will be free.
     
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  12. Shadow Master

    Shadow Master Member

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    Well said!

    One question on a point I'm not familiar with "Tort reform", what is this?
     
  13. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    To put it simply, frivolous and frequent lawsuits, with outlandishly and ridiculously large awards.
     
  14. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    All I know is that if I ever need any type of serious surgery I won't be able to go down to the states anymore, in no time you will develop the same problems We have. That's why so many Canadians also have Privet Medical Insurance. I'm Shafted:rolleyes::( Well I heard Cuba has an excellent Medical System. Well that will leave the US Out.

    As for what replaces county Hospitals ??? We have CLSC walk in Clinics.
     
  15. Shadow Master

    Shadow Master Member

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    I see, thanks.

    You and I don't really have to many disgruntlement's that differ on the current system. What would you like to see done to correct things?



    HELL YEAH!

    Newsmax - Napolitano: Supreme Court to Strike Down Obamacare
     
  16. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    Well, for one, reform is needed, no question about it. Don't create another massive bureaucracy that will choke itself to death on it's own red tape to handle health care. That's like trusting the government and politicians to do the right thing. Ain't gonna happen pal. Deal with the tort reform issue (most politicians are lawyers, so guess how that issue will turn out), the pharmaceudical industry (who pay big bucks to "former" and "retired" politicians to be lobbiests-oh yeah, breath a sign of relief over that one), and create if they must a system to cover and treat the un-covered who overload the emergency rooms. Revamp medicare if they want to fonk with something. The Republicans will probably be ok with that and work with the Democrats for once, maybe. Who knows.

    I pay high enough premiums and taxes as it is, now will have to pay higher taxes like they do in Canada, and then will have to wait for treatment like they do. Can't wait for that to start. Where will we go for treatment if our system mirrors Canada's? I will have to pay more and get less, and there will be those who won't have to pay anything more because they don't pay anything now. They will get the same thing I get as far as medical care goes. I have no qualms about taking care of the elderly, the infirm, the young, disabled, etc, but the ones that overload the system by not contributing to it (free-loaders, illegal aliens, bums, etc) who are perfectly able but just not willing to work shouldn't be my problem to tend to. Taxes are a neccessary evil, but there are too many who don't contribute to the system, but continue to expect their free ride for whatever reason they convince themselves of in their sh1t-filled heads. Communism doesn't work, and socialism doesn't either. Sooner or later Washington will run out of our money to p1ss away.

    There, that's my plan.
     
  17. Shadow Master

    Shadow Master Member

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    Well, it seems that you find the current (unacceptable) state of affairs just as unpalatable as I myself do. To end the lawyer-boys getting rich at the public's expense...

    Would you vote for legislation that required that every dollar any lawyer makes from insurance litigation to be made public knowledge? This way, there couldn't be any hiding the extent to which the high price of insurance is due to the utterly outrageous amounts these scumbags charge (and therefore cost US) in the form of legal fees and whatnot.

    And what about legislation that went a step further and banned them from getting paid anything from any insurance litigation---while requiring them to do such work (and successfully) in order to keep working as a lawyer. In other words, every bloodsucking lawyer-boy would be required to 'perform' their share of insurance litigation without pay, so that the rest of their time they could handle other types of cases for which they could be compensated.

    What about banning private health 'insurance', and instead having a tax based program that works directly between the taxpayer and the health care providers (no middlemen---and therefore less wasted dollars in costs and profits for them). What about legislation requiring the disclosure of every dollar taken in from taxes---and how it was disbursed from the public fund to pay for medical bills?

    You seem to see the writing on the wall as regards to the other 'high cost' factors as well. Any thoughts on what kind of system or program can help cure the problems of inflated equipment, drug and personnel training costs? I'm thinking that perhaps each city/county/state might sell "health care facilities bonds" or some such thing, which could be one method of paying for the construction of publicly owned training facilities, laboratories to make the drugs, and factories to make the equipment.

    I think that if we identified the key areas that needed fixing (by passing laws that require disclosure of the costs for the last 20-30 years or so), we could then target these problem areas and begin to eliminate the possibilities of increased prices year by year. If the people owned a supplier of each and every type of equipment, every drug, and every kind of health care worker, this could provide a solid base price for all such things, and any business that wanted to charge higher prices would put themselves out of business if those prices were to much higher than the prices of the publicly owned businesses.

    Basically, the people directly enact legislation (that the fed cannot touch) that makes hiding the reasons for the increasing costs public knowledge, and then taking corrective action in the form of further legislation and fund raising to build businesses to provide the commodities that are oh-so-expensive.

    I look forward to input and suggestions.
     
  18. Herr Oberst

    Herr Oberst Member

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    I have health care, which I work to pay for, why should I pay for yours? More importantly, why should Progressives destroy the US economy to pay for it.

    BTW Healthcare is not a right!!!

    All this is not really about health care, the US has the best healthcare in the world. It is about socialist redistribution of wealth by the pathetic social justice wielding progressives under the guise of healthcare, with full respect.;)

    It is the Democrat Party which has control over the legislative and executive branch which at present is on a mission to destroy the United States by

    1. Not supporting its alliance with Israel. Insulting the Israeli head of state.

    2. Allowing the Iranian government to obtain nuclear weapons. This will cause eventual world wide economic problems with the flow of oil in the Gulf. Nevermind the status of peace in that region.

    3. Redistributing the wealth and destroying individual liberty of the US by creating a socialist healthcare system. Using taxpayer dollars to kill babies. Also causing major companies to cut jobs and small businesses to mock time economically. In addition causing a shortage in doctors, closings of hospitals, as well as curbing the advancement in development of new drugs and medical instruments. Creating more IRS jobs which will oppress the American people and cost them more in taxes.

    4. Downsizing the defense of the US, by cutting the F-22 program and by giving away our Nuclear Arms superiority

    5. Spending money on everything but private sector job creation.

    6. Taxing the American public into oblivion and unionizing everything in sight.

    7. Not understanding the basic concepts of Homeland security and border control.

    8. Not understanding the concept of "illegal" alien

    9. Allowing terrorists "their day in court" Letting terrorists go.

    10. Harming the security and readiness of our troops by imposing political agenda upon them.

    11. Believing in Al Gore's Global Warming religion and passing Cap and tax legislation which will again destroy the American Economy.

    12. Leading by appeasement. Appologizing to the world.

    13. Causing me unnecessary stress, which is high treason.

    Martin Luther comes to mind.
    Right out of the Obama playbook.
     
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  19. texson66

    texson66 Ace

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    This is as good an explanation of why BO won.... and now we have ice cream (and forced to pay for it too)

    THE COW AND THE ICE CREAM
    ONE OF THE BEST EXPLANATIONS

    OF WHY OBAMA WON THE ELECTION



    --From a teacher in the Nashville area

    "We are worried about 'the cow' when it is all about the 'Ice Cream.'


    The most eye-opening civics lesson I ever had was while teaching third grade this year...


    The presidential election was heating up and some of the children showed an interest.

    I decided we would have an election for a class president.


    We would choose our nominees.. They would make a campaign speech and the class would vote.


    To simplify the process, candidates were nominated by other class members.


    We discussed what kinds of characteristics these students should have.


    We got many nominations and from those, Jamie and Olivia were picked to run for the top spot.


    The class had done a great job in their selections. Both candidates were good kids.


    I thought Jamie might have an advantage because he got lots of parental support.


    I had never seen Olivia's mother.


    The day arrived when they were to make their speeches.

    Jamie went first.




    He had specific ideas about how to make our class a better

    place. He ended by promising to do his very best.


    Everyone applauded and he sat down.


    Now is was Olivia's turn to speak.


    Her speech was concise.
    She said, "If you will vote for me, I will give you ice cream."She sat down.

    The class went wild. "Yes! Yes!
    We want ice cream."

    She surely would say more. She did not have to.


    A discussion followed. How did she plan to pay for the ice cream?
    She wasn't sure.

    Would her parents buy it or would the class pay for it...
    She didn't know.

    The class really didn't care.
    All they were thinking about was ice cream...

    Jamie was forgotten.. Olivia won by a landslide.


    Every time Barack Obama opened his mouth he offered ice cream and
    52 percent of the people reacted like nine year olds.

    They want ice cream.


    The other 48 percent know
    they're going to have to feed the cow and clean up the mess."

    This is the ice cream Obama promised us!








    Remember, the government cannot give anything to anyone --
    that they have not first taken away from someone else.


    Did you vote for the ice cream?
     
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  20. T. A. Gardner

    T. A. Gardner Genuine Chief

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    The worst is yet to come with the health insurance thing. Next up early to mid next year watch the Democrats, if they still have a majority or even just parity in Congress begin to push for a VAT on, well, everything. This will be necessary to "fix" the deficit they largely created. The crisis will come when Moody's down rates the US bond from AAA to AA.
    Obama will tell the public a VAT is the "only" solution to the problem (lie). The Democrats and press will tell you it "works for the rest (eg., Europe) of the world" (another lie). Then the media will line up behind them to try and sell yet another step to socialism to the US public.

    At this point I am beginning to hope our next President is as inept as James Buchanan with the same result.
     
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