Egyptian Democracy Revolution Showing True Colors

More Sweetness and light from the peaceful muzzies who revolted for "Freedom":

Egyptian Army Soldiers Chanting “Allahu Akbar” Attack Ancient Christian Monastery Using Live Ammunition, RPG Rounds…


And as Islamists begin to seize power things will only get worse for Egypt’s large Christian population.


"(AINA) — For the second time in as many days, Egyptian armed force stormed the 5th century old St. Bishoy monastery in Wadi el-Natroun, 110 kilometers from Cairo. Live ammunition was fired, wounding two monks and six Coptic monastery workers. Several sources confirmed the army’s use of RPG ammunition. Four people have been arrested including three monks and a Coptic lawyer who was at the monastery investigating yesterday’s army attack.
Monk Aksios Ava Bishoy told activist Nader Shoukry of Freecopts the armed forces stormed the main entrance gate to the monastery in the morning using five tanks, armored vehicles and a bulldozer to demolish the fence built by the monastery last month to protect themselves and the monastery from the lawlessness which prevailed in Egypt during the January 25 Uprising.
“When we tried to address them, the army fired live bullets, wounding Father Feltaows in the leg and Father Barnabas in the abdomen,” said Monk Ava Bishoy. “Six Coptic workers in the monastery were also injured, some with serious injuries to the chest.”
The injured were rushed to the nearby Sadat Hospital, the ones in serious condition were transferred to the Anglo-Egyptian Hospital in Cairo.
Father Hemanot Ava Bishoy said the army fired live ammunition and RPGs continuously for 30 minutes, which hit part of the ancient fence inside the monastery. “The army was shocked to see the monks standing there praying ‘Lord have mercy’ without running away. This is what really upset them,” he said. “As the soldiers were demolishing the gate and the fence they were chanting ‘Allahu Akbar’ and ‘Victory, Victory’.”


Prayers for the Christians in the Middle East please!
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Meanwhile, Hamas is busy too...



"And exactly like the Muslim Brotherhood is doing in Egypt now, Hamas had originally said it had no interest in enforcing sharia law.

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — After nearly four years of Hamas rule, the Gaza Strip’s small secular community is in tatters, decimated by the militant group’s campaign to impose its strict version of Islam in the coastal territory.
Hamas has bullied men and women to dress modestly, tried to keep the sexes from mingling in public and sparked a flight of secular university students and educated professionals. Most recently, it has confiscated novels it deems offensive to Islam from a bookshop and banned Gaza’s handful of male hairdressers from styling women’s hair.
The Hamas push toward religious fundamentalism is especially striking at a time of great change in the Middle East. With the Iranian-backed group firmly entrenched in power, Gaza seems unlikely to experience the type of pro-democracy unrest that has swept through much of the region.
Some argue that the case of Gaza could also be a warning sign for those pushing for quick democratic reforms in the region. Hamas rose to power in part by winning internationally backed parliamentary elections held in 2006."

Doesn't sound like kum-ba-ya time to me! yessir, Islam it's for "freedom".
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They seem to understand the 'freedom to do as you want', but not the 'so long as it does not limit the freedom of others' part.

 

Dave don't do it, to late.

Our Prime Minister was on a visit to Egypt last week and with him was Arms delegation, hope they sold nothing.

 

If this is turning into a crusade thread I'll close it. The large majority of Egyptians are fine people and they hate fundamentalists. The fact that a few men attacked a Holy building is not representative of a whole people, nor of a whole religion.P_grenate1:

 

OK here's another item to show how things are going for the Christians in Egypt...

Egypt: Mob of 4,000 Rampaging Muslims Attack Christian Homes, Torch Church…

(AINA) — A mob of nearly four thousand Muslims has attacked Coptic homes this evening in the village of Soul, Atfif in Helwan Governorate, 30 kilometers from Cairo, and torched the Church of St. Mina and St. George. There are conflicting reports about the whereabouts of the Church pastor Father Yosha and three deacons who were at church; some say they died in the fire and some say they are being held captive by the Muslims inside the church.
Witnesses report the mob prevented the fire brigade from entering the village. The army, which has been stationed for the last two days in the village of Bromil, 7 kilometers from Soul, initially refused to go into Soul, according to the officer in charge. When the army finally sent three tanks to the village, Muslim elders sent them away, saying that everything was “in order now.”
A curfew has been imposed on the 12,000 Christians in the village.
This incident was triggered by a relationship between 40-year-old Copt Ashraf Iskander and a Muslim woman. Yesterday a “reconciliation” meeting was arranged between the relevant Coptic and Muslim families and together with the Muslim elders it was decided that Ashraf Iskander would have to leave the village because Muslims torched his house.
The father of the Muslim woman was killed by his cousin because he did not kill his daughter to preserve the family’s honor, which led the woman’s brother to avenge the death of his father by killing the cousin. The village Muslims blamed the Christians.
The Muslim mob attacked the church, exploding 5-6 gas cylinders inside the church, pulled down the cross and the domes and burnt everything inside. Activist Ramy Kamel of Katibatibia Coptic advocacy called US-based Coptic Hope Sat TV and sent an SOS on behalf of the Copts in Soul village, as they are presently being attacked by the mob. He also said that no one is able to contact the priest and the deacons inside the burning church and there is no answer from their mobile phones."


Maybe the muslims should have a day of unrage for a chance of pace?

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Sad and troubling indeed. The lack of order and confusion is being used by some to settle old scores, not a very new concept I'm afraid. It was true for much of the Balkans for years and here in the US during the American Civil war in Kansas/Missouri/Arkansas regions.

 

I was in Iran before the fall of the Shah and although he and his police the "Savak" were not anything to brag about the average folk's standard of living was improving.

We cannot deny the fact that in the Middle East there are serious problems. These problems lie in a large part with the Muslim religion, I know I have lived there. One could also argue that there are serious problems with the Christian religion, I'm sure that those who suffered during the Inquistion would agree.

In my mind, the only way forward to reform and and a better world is through education. Telling the truth is the first step on the road to knowledge.

KTK

 

The problem with all religions is that because they believe they already have the answers they look at people who think outside the box as disruptive at best and heretics at worst, fortunately in most western countries they can do little about it but where it has enough power, like round here, the Catholic church still occasionally atempts to bring back the middle ages.

As a society needs new ideas and innovation to progress that is bad, especiall in a world dominated by free market economics where innovation and change are key to prosperity if not outright surival. What democracy really needs is a large and solid middle class of people who are used to making decisions and evaluating risks in everyday life, only this will make good choices in representatives likely, until that develops you cannot have a working Democracy.

While religion is a big obstacle to that IMO it's not the biggest one, education is part of the solution, always assuming it doesn't contain a massive dose of indoctrination, free circulation of information is also needed, a free economy helps, having a frontier where people develop self reliance is also a very good thing, while things like having multinational corporations interfering in internal choices, and corrupting the occasional politician, does not help one bit.

 

Wonder if those fighting for " Democracy" realise that it entails freedom. Freedom to vote, work, drive, learn and live. Men and women. I doubt they are willing to allow their women folk any democracy. Look at what happened to the female CBS reporter covering the Egypt uprising... So what was all the killing about, if not Democracy? I'll bet things will be worse than before for women there. Because their politics are inexorably tied to religion.

 

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/.a/6a00d83451c45669e20133f44a8ab2970b-popup

 

Somehow knowing only 10,000 muslims belong to a group wanting to kill me and destroy the West doesnt make me feel any better.

One WMD (nuclear or bio) welded by fewer than 100 would bring terror to the US and/or Europe.


One question: why isn't the rest of Islam trying to curtail the 10000 "crazies"???

 

First of all, the chart was supposed to reveal the injustice done by stereotyping the entire Muslim population as "terrorists" (a term which is now being used in the same manipulative manner that "communist" was during the cold war).

Second of all, the more important question is why do these people want to attack us? Despite the widely-held belief that these people simply hate us because we are free and good, there are clearly-stated, reasonable motives for their actions, which are directly related to US foreign policy over the last six decades.

Supporting and allowing Israel to infringe upon the sovereignty of the Palestinians (an infringement not without gross human rights violations), installing the Shah in Iran, supporting Saddam Hussein the 70s and 80s, implementing extremely harsh sanctions against Iraq after the first gulf war (causing the deaths of tens of thousands of civilians, including many infants), the new invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq (leading to the combined death of over 100,00 civilians), along with the support of various other autocracies (many of which we are seeing overthrown now) such as Egypt and Saudi Arabia are a few examples (the major ones) of reasons for anger in the middle east.

I am in no way condoning the actions of Al Qaeda or any other militant Islamic group, but if we are to ever truly approach peace, there needs to be a discourse in this country examining the reasons for the extremist sentiment we are now seeing.

 

today

Lebanese Hezbollah militants gesture as they visit the grave of Hezbollah commander Imad Mughnieh (C-portrait), who was killed in a car bombing in the Syrian capital Damascus in 2008, during a ceremony commemorating the 3rd anniversary of his assassination in southern Beirut on February 13, 2011. (Getty Images)


1939

As to why? I have a clue from the photos above. They simply want to kill the Jews and the rest of the infidels. There will never be peace with a rabid dog.

I suppose you would have been right there with Chamberlain with his "Peace in Our Time" piece of paper? That worked out well didn't it?

 

I understand that Middle Easterners don't like us for our foreign policy record. That's fine, and I understand that.

What I don't understand is the concept that I have been told that the overwhelming majority of Muslims in the Middle East apparently finds terrorist attacks against the West "horrid".

They were hell bent on going nuts and shouting down our nutjob all over the region for just threatening to burn their holy book.

But how many Imams and crowds are shouting down their nutjob for murdering our airmen away in Germany and insulting the "religion of peace".

The "fear" excuse that moderates apparently have is getting old.

 

I must conceed that there is a measure of truth that US policies have not always benifited the 'average' muslim in the street, but they were not done deliberatly to harm them either. What is also lost are the occasions when the US used its influence to restrain Europe and Isreal from some of its actions. Forgotten also is the USSR in its involvement in the area with the collusion of the likes of Assad, Quaddafi and Nasser. The average muslim has been as badly used by thier own leaders, including those we had no part in thier installation, as they have from Isreal or the US. When any group of people latch on to thought that a single purity of thought and action is the standard by which all people must live, then there is only discord not harmony.

 

Here's a clue as to what "radical" islam is all about....and its not peace and light and ponies and rainbows

Saudi Islamic Scholar: The Day Is Coming When Islam Will Rule the World Again…

"(MEMRI) — Following are excerpts from an interview with Saudi Islamic scholar Dr. Muhammad Musa Al-Sharif, which aired on Iqra TV on February 25, 2011.
Muhammad Musa Al-Sharif: These events are paving the way for a greater thing to come. They are paving the way for a great Islam that is coming with force, because the world is in need of leadership. The current leadership — Communism, capitalism, and so on — has gone bankrupt. Only Islam is left to lead the world. The Prophet Muhammad foretold this clearly in several hadiths. Islamic leadership is coming whether people like it or not. Therefore, we must become soldiers of this emerging leadership.
We believe in the principle that Islam is suitable for any time or place. In addition, this religion was put to the test, so to speak, and it established an empire, which was magnificent in its power and greatness, as well in the compassion it displayed towards the world, and in its best possible leadership of humanity.
When after the 16th century, the Islamic nation was removed from power — having been struck by all those tragedies — and others took over the leadership of mankind, we witnessed the worst possible results: oppression, global tyranny, arrogance, and despotism. The only thing that the sheiks, preachers, and scholars are demanding is that Islam rule the world once again."
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The radicals would not have any power or be any kind of threat if it wasn't for the West's insistance on attempting to bring democracy to that area. Islam is a way of life there and not just a religion. That conflicts with the principles of democracy. Now there is talk about intervening in Libya. I say leave them be. Freedom is cherished more when earned, not given. Personally, I'm not too impressed with democracy because of the greed, corruption and persecution of religion that comes with it. Look at the former Eastern Bloc countries for examples. There is no real freedom under democracy, at least the type of freedom they project. Democracy in the past was a beacon of light. Now that light is tarnished and unimpressive. Freedom of speech is used to attack rather than defend. Justice is only for those who have the most to spend on lawyers. Freedom of religion is slowly being ebbed away because of the minority whiners. I foresee an implosion coming in the West. All the radical muslims need to do is wait. We are doing to ourselves.

 

If not Democracy , then what? Yes it's full of holes but you don't see people moving to China to start up a corner store. Or get a job with the government lol. Or Russia, anywhere middle east, Africa, etc. They move here. Because we got it right. Or as close as our non voting butts can get ...Can I get an "Amen" ? lol.