U.S. police to use Russian shotguns?!

Stumbled onto this interesting article. I was unaware that U.S. needed shotguns from Russia.

U.S. Police to Buy Izhmash Shotguns | Defense | RIA Novosti

I must say the shotguns do look impressive...

 

Will make a nice crack house assault tool. That clip does look awesome. Izmash - it has a nice ring to it.

 

I want one! Can you imagine the looks you'd get with one of those on the gun rack in the pickem-up.

 

I would say "needed" is a relative term. What I'm sure there getting is a reliable semi-auto tactical shotgun at an excellent price point, with an interesting feature of detachable hi-cap mags. Comparing this to something like a Benelli M4, I'll bet the PDs are purchasing these in quantity for 1/3 the price or less. I'd guess < or = $400/unit (MSRP $690), compared to the Benelli's MSRP ~ $1600. I have no personal experience with the Saiga-12 but most reviews are very favorable. Not surprising, built on the tried and true AK platform. It is also made in 20Ga and .410.

I'll leave it to any LEOs in the crowd to comment on the necessity of hi-cap detachable mags, but I've never heard any one complain about having too much ammunition available.

I

 

Hmmm...Does increase the chance of jamming due to a loss in spring compression...More is not always better. There is already a semi-auto ( a bunch) 12 gauge available...why go for this?? WTF are they anticipating coming up against? A little hollywood if they think they are actually going to NEED this sort of fire power...could be simply for psychological reasons, i'd beleive that.
But i wouldnt trust this company's weapons in a do or die fire fight. And a sight for a shotgun is a complete wank. (Even for solid shot). Something like this should also be designed and manufactured with as much synthetic material as possible...imagine how heavy this sucker is fully loaded. 2nd world firearm techniques dont allow for high quality synthetics (im going to cop it for that comment!) Of course the experts know what they are talking about...but the decision to buy may not be as obvious as first thought....Again, im going for psychological reasons...(The bad guys have very impressive weapons these days).

 

I really dont know but I want one too!

 

Theoretical but possible. Seriously doubt this is an issue with 5 rnd mags but maybe more so with the 20 rnd drum, IDK.

Cost v. benefit ratio.

I seriously doubt many LEO encounters require a high amount of firepower from a tactical shotgun, but the ability to rapidly reload with a detachable mag could be quite advantageous, as all of the "competitors" have tube mags AFAIK.

Benelli M4 - 3.82 Kg, Saiga-12 - 3.9 Kg. A wash.

It would be interesting to see a true test, especially head to head with a "quality" firearm. I wouldn't be surprised if this one performed well though. Hey, I'll take my Colt AR15 over an AKM any day, but I would never discredit an AK. I'd be surprised if this didn't perform as well, though I'd like to see the testing too. You can't beat a quality firearm, though the Russians/Soviets have a pretty good track record when it comes to to making extremely reliable firearms of simple, inexpensive designs.

I wouldn't argue that. Just not how a tactical SG is used. Addendum: I looked at the picture again, magnified. Actually I think they just left the standard AKM sights in place, though not sure why. It has an optical sight on it, probably a "red dot" or "ghost ring" type of sight which is quite appropriate for a tactical or combat SG.

I'm sticking with the $$. These are mostly bust down the door encounters. Doubt "evil" looking guns play a role.

2nd Addendum: I did a little more searching about these on the net. Not surprisingly, they have quite a cult following (Russian businessmen must love the return to a capitalist economy and trade with the US). I would amend my price upward some from my first estimate, which is the most basic model. I'd still put it significantly below competition from other major firearms mfgrs.

 

I have a Saiga 12g, though not THAT ridiculous looking thing in the picture. They are decently priced, amazingly fun to shoot and I have never had problem with jamming with either the box or the drum. I've never used mine to hunt with but we blow through a ton of shotgun shells here and since I bought the Saiga about 7 months ago we've shot the hell out of it. Comparable to a Benelli M4? Probably...and about half the price. I have a Benelli semi-auto duck gun and it's a sweet piece but it's not the end all be all of shotguns either.

 

Isn't this a bit too much to get a cat of the tree?

 

Nope...no such thing as too much firepower.

 

Lets save the cat by burning down the tree!

 

Look up what happened in LA on Feb 28, 1997. Just because it is unlikely to be needed in everyday use, it doesn't mean that they shouldn't be prepared.

 

That was a hairy day, there is a good documentary on it too. PD's are running up against powerfully armed cartels and gangsters in many of the inner cities and on the borders. They've been under gunned in many instances. My Cousin is on the Akron Univ. PD (Moved over there from Akron Municipal PD - 12 years) and I would like her to have an AK for the mopes out there.

 

There is a new age of crime and the guns the bad boys are using now. To me the Police is definately underarmed, underprotecteted and in our case they have to less training. The regular police has one time shooting in 1 to 2 month. We had a competition with a SEK ( similar to your SWAT) and we have beaten them in any of their disciplines by far. Next point is the wrong ammo they have to use, RN bullets instead of the much better working hollow points. Another point is that i have often seen your policemen working alone instead of a two men team, is that normal?

 

It really depends on the locale. I live in a rural area, so a lone policeman on patrol for local PDs, Sheriff's Dept. and the State Police is the norm. For bigger municipalities that's not necessarily so, though tough economic times are forcing many departments to trim their services by reducing the number of active LEOs on patrol.

 

Thanks Doc, thats a bad thing to shorten the men and risking their lives for low money!

 

The United States makes superb firearms. I can say with confindence that the U.S. did enough research on this gun before purchasing it and certainly would not buy any firearm or weapon if she herself had something better. If the U.S. trusts this this company enough to arm her police officers with, you probably should too



P.S.
This company built AK47's (since invention) and armed the Russian military. From my knowledge the Kalashnikov earned its reputation in many fire fights. The company has been around for over 200 years and is one of Russias main weapons producers with around 1000 employees including Kalashnikov himself!!! If you cant trust a company such as this, which can you trust?

 

A nice video

Saiga-12 Highlights - YouTube

 

A beast like this would be useful with non lethal ammo, 12 gauge bean bags etc for crowd control, maybe some solid shot for opening doors then different rounds in the rest of the mag.