Soviet Manchuria offensive.

A few facts,

Czarist Russia was invaded in 1812, Communist Russia, 1941 so 128 years apart, not twice in one century. There was a western incursion in 1919, but we were supporting a White Russian faction, so that is a debatable issue. In 1914 (WWI) Czarist Russia invaded Germany and Austro-Hungary First.

This also discounts the Soviet attack upon Poland (1919-21 and 1939) Finland (1940), occupation of the Baltic states (1940) Eastern Romania (1940) before the war as well as others after the war.

Patton was not the only western voice against the Soviet Union, there were many, including Winston Churchill, though he did not advocate actually going to war with Russia. Patton understood that, Militarily, the west would never be in a better position to push Russia back to its border.

What Patton had trouble accepting was that with another war (The Pacific) to be won, no one in athority agreed with him fully.

Patton was a superb American Army commander, but he was a man from another age who had reached his pinnicle. Much like Sherman in the American Civil War, I would happily given him an Army in the Field and a objective to capture, but I would not make a politician of him.

 

Responsibility for WWI is a complicated topic, but it was Germany who declared war on Russia first, Aug 1. This was not followed by any action on that front; in the peculiar world of German strategy the next step was to provoke war with France and invade Belgium. Thus it was left to the Russians to open actual hostilities in the east about two weeks later.

Strange as it seems, Austria and Russia remained at peace until August 6, when Germany insisted that her ally declare war. On this front it was the Austrians who crossed the frontier first and won the first few battles against Russian armies still in the process of mobilizing and advancing to the frontier.

It was a peculiar period. Tsarist Russia, led by a Tsar who had personally witnessed his grandfather dying from an assassin's bomb, found herself defending regicides thanks to her self-appointed role as protector of the Slavs and her ambition to expand into the Balkans, a region where Russia had no historic role.

 

Only with Americans. Not the rest of the world.

 

Well the Japanese invaded in 1904 did they not?

 

You make valid points but most of the Axis powers were fighting the Soviets. Did the U.S. ever face the Romanians in battle? Finnish?

 

Well the Japanese invaded in 1904 did they not?

Another intriguing point. It could be argued that the Japanese did not attack Russia per se but rather Russian colonies, although they were contiguous to Russian territory. It might be more analagous to, say, Britain and France fighting over Canada.

 

Sorry. My point was most of the Axis powers were fighting on the eastern front.

 

The Pacific does not get as much publicity. People base their opinions mostly off perceptions.

 

So you speak for the rest of the world now?
Actually I think the most critical role in the defeat of the Axis powers was played by Britain. For a critical year they stood alone. While the Soviets may have inflicted more damage on the Heer the western allies inflicted more on the German economy as well as the navies of all three of the major Axis powers and along with China defeated the Japanese with essentially no help for the Soviets. Like wise the Soviets played little role in defeating Italy. You have a long way to go in supporting your positon.

 

Were they? Of the major 3 the Soviets faced a good portion of the German military but only fragments of the Italian and until the very end nothing of the Japanese. Were the Finns even part of the Axis? The US regarded them as a cobelligerant I believe and never declared war on them. The other Axis powers were pretty minor players in the greater scheme of things.

 

I believe even today Siberia is considered part of Russia as it was then.

 

I believe even today Siberia is considered part of Russia as it was then.

I believe so too, but did Japan show any interest in attacking Siberia? The war was over Korea, Manchuria, Port Arthur, a few islands, most of which Russia had only moved into in the preceding ten years or so, since the conclusion of the Sino-Japanese war.

 

For some reason I thought Port Arthur was in Siberia. Now I know better. Thanks.
That would make your earlier point valid as well.

 

East of the Urals, it all looks the same

 

I believe the Japanese acquainted themselves with some of the Siberian landscape, I doubt they didn't care about Siberia. They were fond of the effects of war and how it bolstered their economy short term - however obviously from this quote you can tell public opinion and finances seemed to get the better of them.

"Furthermore, although the Allies had envisioned operations only in the vicinity of Vladivostok, within months Japanese forces had penetrated as far west as Lake Baikal and Buryatia, and by 1920, zaibatsu such as Mitsubishi, Mitsui and others had opened offices in Vladivostok, Khabarovsk, Nikolayevsk-on-Amur and Chita, bringing with them over 50,000 civilian settlers. After the international coalition withdrew its forces, the Japanese Army stayed on. However, political opposition prevented the Army from annexing the resource-rich region. Japan continued to support White Movement leader Admiral Aleksandr Kolchak until his defeat and capture in 1920, and also supported the regime of Ataman Semenov, whose unstable government collapsed by 1922. In March and April 1922, the Japanese Army repulsed large Bolshevik offensives against Vladivostok. Public opinion in Japan mounted against the cost of the Siberian Intervention, which had absorbed over half the national budget for two years. On June 24, 1922 Japan announced that it would unilaterally withdraw from all of Russian territory with the exception of northern Sakhalin island (held until 1925), which had been seized in retaliation for the Nikolaevsk Incident of 1920 by October."

Japan during the Siberian Intervention - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I hope wikipedia isn't blasphemy yet on these forums.

 

To be precise: Finland never was "an Axis power".

 

Actually the soviets attacked Finland in 1918 (the peace was made in 1920), 1939(-40) and 1941(-44).