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The European Union

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by Ben Dover, Nov 12, 2016.

  1. Brian Smith

    Brian Smith Active Member

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    Not a clue what you are on about, read in full the posts you are quoting from as this makes no sense.

    Who needs a bunker Trump is providing the best entertainment to come out of America since the R & M Laugh In.
     
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  2. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    The thing about the recent vote in Switzerland is that it must be taken with a measure of salt, much as the Brexit vote should be. Better data may present itself in the upcoming election's in France and Germany, both because of their size and impact on the European economy as a whole.

    In a way the nations of Europe have one similarity to the United States in that some 'nations/states' are more conservative/liberal than others and within each of these some portions (usually cities) can be more conservative/liberal than the more rural portions of those countries.

    I know we want answers now but really it will take time, perhaps years, to see how the migrant influx and the UK's exit from the EU affects the EU and Europe as a whole.
     
  3. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

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    Yes, but countries in Europe have sovereignty 'and are countries'.
     
  4. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    Again you miss the point, no single election or referendum can be used as a mine canary. A famous American politician in the Reagan era, Tip O'Neill, noted that all politics are local, meaning how a issue impacts on 'Main Street' determines how people vote. As to European sovereignty, for EU member state's they have already yielded a significant measure of their individual sovereignty to the collective. Far less than American state's has to the Federal Government, but the parallel is there, especially when considering the early years of the United States.
     
  5. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Member

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    To be honest if I needed to use a bunker then what you mention would be the very least of my problems

    TD
     
  6. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

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    You seem to confuse the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland with New Jersey; we're about as big as New Jersey in land, but no, countries are countries and the EU is never going to be a country and there is no United States of Europe.
     
  7. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

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    EU citizens living in the UK from other countries in the EU probably should be treated the same as every other citizen of the world looking to live and work in the UK.
    If an Irish person living in the UK doesn't like that, I'm sure they could become British.
     
  8. Brian Smith

    Brian Smith Active Member

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    Think I get the gist and the point is we should not be discriminating where citizens from outside the UK (or Scotland if they vote to leave the UK) come from. It is more important to focus on are they here legally or illegally and how are we going to address that.
     
  9. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Member

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    If Scotland could leave the UK then effectively there is no longer a UK - in simple terms it is no longer United


    "If an Irish person living in the UK doesn't like that, I'm sure they could become British" - so does that mean if someone British lives in another European country that they will have to take up citizenship of that country?

    TD
     
  10. belasar

    belasar Court Jester

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    Don't confuse the man with fact's.:)
     
  11. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    'Immigration' to these people is a one-way issue. They never for a moment can picture themselves as a burden in another country.
    I watched a news show about Thailand a while back where old UK citizens (mainly men there for the sex benefits) were clogging up their health system and I suspect the Spanish understand the problem as well.
    Irish people have full and unrestricted access to the UK. You would never be asked to show papers/passport if you said you were Irish. However I suspect that will change in the near future. Welcome to the Brave New World of Brexit. .
    One of the criticisms of May is how she has pointedly refused to give assurances on EU citizens status in Brexit UK. She is clearly using them as hostages for the upcoming negotiations but leaks from the EU show that they are aware of this and are forming a united response that will backfire on May if she tries to blackmail them.
     
  12. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Member

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    Sorry about that - wasn't thinking straight

    TD
     
  13. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

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    I hope Brexit does change this.
     
  14. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Member

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    Well Bend over - I think you will find that a lot of British do have Irish blood in them or in their family tree (possibly yourself included). I know for one that I have Irish, Scottish and English blood in me.

    It should also be remembered that many Irishmen from North & South, without hesitation enlisted in the British Army in 1914 and gave their all.

    Also without Irish blood sweat & tears most of the UK's infrastructure would not have been built.

    TD
     
  15. Ben Dover

    Ben Dover Active Member

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    I get the UK's close ties with Ireland, I do.
    I work with Irish people and shed my own blood and sweat on London's infrastructures, just this week I was on a site on Oxford Street doing that.
    I work on high profile sites too; I'm going to one on Monday as a matter of fact,
    Why does my American family and Australian relatives have to be treated different than Irish, and FYI, I have no Irish blood in me.
    I have Irish relatives; but they've got British blood with their Irish blood. Member of my family met and married an Irishman in London and wound up in Ireland with a duel Irish/British citizenship; but she's originally from Balham.. So even though I've got relatives who are Irish and some who still reside in Ireland... I'm not of Irish blood. I've got family who's visited my relatives in Ireland, but I've never been. I like when they come to London though, so I still get to see them.

    It will always be up to The Republic of Ireland and UK of GB and NI what they do; EU or no EU; same goes for France and UK of GB and NI; EU or no EU.

    On that note; If Marie Le Pen becomes Président Le Pen; I doubt that would help Brexit.
    She has spoken out against the UK border in Calais that Président Hollande has assured; but what about Madame Le Pen?
    Also, it is my understanding that Mrs. May (UK PM/Person charged with the responsibility of Brexit) has stressed that GB needs an EU for trade with the EU so does not want Brexit to lead to a breakup of the EU; Despite EU scepticism about democracy and monetary issues with finance and economics and bailouts; GB wants/needs an EU.
     
  16. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Member

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    I was going to reply but to be honest there seems little point

    TD
     
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  17. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    Perhaps I was too hard on him. I said he hated the Germans more than anyone else. Seems I am wrong and if the Scots & Irish are also high up on his hit list.
     
  18. m kenny

    m kenny Member

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    There have been a number of news stories recently about the very hard-line being taken by Immigration Officials with EU Citizens. Clearly May is determined to use them as hostages in her negotiations


    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-39014191

    Tim Strahlendorf moved to the UK from Germany when he was 13.
    He said he had been refused a residency document because he had spent time studying in the UK without paying for health insurance.
    He said: "It never would have occurred to me that anything like this could have happened."
    Nina Hofmann, a married language tutor who moved from Germany to the UK in 2006, said her solicitor told her not to apply for residency because she would be refused.
     
  19. SDP

    SDP recruit

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    Surely this health insurance thing should come as no surprise: we are all told, very clearly and repeatedly that, when travelling to the rest of the EU, whether on holiday or business etc, the EHIC card should not be used as a full replacement for proper insurance.

    It's also a fact, often repeated, that PM May has said that all EU Citizens in the UK will be OK: if anyone is holding anyone to 'ransom' it's the EU HQ who have not made a similar solemn declaration. It's still early days so there will be uncertainty in many aspects of the future: that responsibility also lies at the door of the EU HQ because, if the EU club was so damned brilliant, the UK would not have felt it necessary to leave! No-one would be that daft.

    Note: I'm a fervent believer in the EU model but there has been a democratic vote and, like it or not, we have to abide by the result.
     
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  20. Tricky Dicky

    Tricky Dicky Member

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    Not according to Mr Tony Blair

    TD
     

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