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Troy Middleton: Right man at the right time

Discussion in 'Western Europe 1943 - 1945' started by ww2thebigone, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. ww2thebigone

    ww2thebigone Member

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  2. minden1759

    minden1759 Member

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    Troy Middleton was pretty impressive in Italy too.

    Frank
     
  3. DaveOB

    DaveOB Member

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    I don't think Middleton was a very good Corp commander. His very assignment to the Ardennes might indicate what his superiors thought of him.
    I base my opinion on 2 defining moments in his career. The first was during the initial phase of Cobra. It was his job to pin down the forces in front of him and he failed. While the attack did succeed it was in spite of his efforts and not because of them. On this the most pivotal moment in his career he failed and might have sank the entire attack if luck and more aggressive American commanders hadn't saved the day.
    In the bulge with an ounce of caution Middleton might have saved 4 entire regiments of infantry. There was some intelligence floating around that a potentially large counterattack was in the making in his area everyone knew it was possible. Even Patton, who's armies area was far to the South of the build up area, at least had his staff work up a plan. With some very minor staff work they could have made some very quick contingencies in case of attack. It's very obvious he did nothing. I don't think defending Bastogne was any masterstroke. Any corporal would know to defend the major crossroads in your area. These are just the opinions of an amateur tactician if anyone has more informed insights I would love to hear a more informed opinion.
     
  4. minden1759

    minden1759 Member

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    Troy Middleton was certainly a good Div Comd. History is littered with the souls of chaps who were good at one level and appalling at another - Bernard Freyberg at Monte Cassino for one, Bernard Montgomery in Normandy for another.

    Regards

    Frank
     
  5. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    No, the VIII Corps mission during COBRA was to exploit to Coutances, not to pin German forces. Middleton led with the 8th and 90th Division, which advanced steadily, but slowly until German forces began a withdrawal. He then made the crucial decision to pass the 4th Armored Division through at 0500 hours 28 July. That in turn led to the securing of Avranches and the capture of the intact bridges at Pontaubault on 30 July, arguably the most critical point of the breakout. He made his decision to commit the 4th AD despite warnings of German minefields and booby-traps left behind, the result of which qualify as the results of luck and aggressiveness in my book.

    So who do you think "saved the day"?

    Umm, no, in the Ardennes Middleton's dispositions were directly the product of Hodges directives. The 106th ID relieved the 2d ID beginning 10 December in order for the 2d ID to participate in Hodges' latest effort to take the Roer dams. The dispositions of the VIII Corps artillery groupement east of the Our River, which dictated the dispositions of the 106th ID and 112th Infantry were also part of Hodges' fixation. It was also Hodges who directed the corps boundary run through the Losheim "gap" and who ordered the attachment of CCB, 9th AD to V Corps in support of 2d ID and the fixation on the dams. The result was one-third of the VIII Corps front was held by a green division and one-third of its mobile reserve was stripped away from it.
     
  6. DaveOB

    DaveOB Member

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    "As "the direct pressure force," VIII Corps was to tie down the Germans to prevent their disengagement and withdrawal before the completion of the VII Corps envelopment."- Break out and pursuit page 266

    "in so doing its divisions had incurred more than 1,150 casualties while capturing less than 100 prisoners. Yet General Middleton was satisfied. His troops appeared to be tying down the enemy and holding him in place for the VII Corps encirclement." page 269

    "On the premise that the Germans were still going to defend in strength, the units made careful, comprehensive attack plans.
    Soon after the attack commenced, it became apparent that little more than a profusion of mine fields opposed the assault troops all across the corps front." -p.270

    They had slipped away. Other American forces were attacking through the night my opinion is he should have too. This was the big one why was he so cautious?

    Admin edit--short post merged into one.
     
  7. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    That phrase actually appears on page 265, not 266, and should be read in conjunction with the remarks regarding terrain on pages 267-268 and the G-2 assessment on 269-270.

    Did you miss the bloody nose inflicted on the 90th ID on the "Island"? When the better part of two infantry battalions surrendered after they were isolated? I am also curious where you got the information that Middleton was satisfied from page 268? That is on page 269, after recounting the losses to the 90th ID at Seves.

    Admin edit--short post merged into one.
     
  8. DaveOB

    DaveOB Member

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    I hear you Rich but g2 assessment shmee2 assessment. He failed in his mission the g2 is only an adviser.

    My copy is on pdf page numbers must be wrong.

    Admin edit--short post merged into one.
     
  9. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    My copy is both the hardcover and the PDF by CMH...both the same.

    How did he "fail his mission"? His mission was to pin the Germans, starting the day after the COBRA attack kicked off in order to enable the VII Corps envelopment. Are you saying the VII Corps envelopment did not succeed?

    Admin edit--short post merged into one.
     
  10. DaveOB

    DaveOB Member

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    I'm glad it was you who responded by the way Rich. I was curious about your opinion.

    He failed to pin down the Germans so that they could be encircled. And in my admittedly very amateur opinion if he would have attacked through the night he could have accomplished it.

    "Aided by the terrain, the weather, the darkness, the absence of Allied night fighter planes, and the extreme caution of American troops, who had come to respect the ability of the Germans to fight in the hedgerows, the German troops facing the VIII Corps had neatly slipped out of the trap set by COBRA".-p. 271


    Admin edit--multiple short post merged into one.
     
  11. DaveOB

    DaveOB Member

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    "This and other evidence made it apparent on 28 July that a large German force was bottled up near Montpinchon and Roncey. CCB gradually turned its major attention to the north and northwest to contain it. The combat command had not arrived too late after all."-p 275

    After much racing and aggressive action CCB 2nd armored saves the day and prevents a large and dangerous force from escaping and lurking on the flanks of the attack.
     
  12. DaveOB

    DaveOB Member

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    Hate to hammer a point but I think this sums things up.
    "Again sensing a critical moment, General Collins had ordered continued attack through the night of 26 July. It was this--in particular the activity of General Barton's 4th Division--that had rammed the COBRA attack home. Had the VIII Corps attacked during the night of 26 July, the Germans on the Cotentin west coast might not have slipped away in the dark to temporary escape." -p.329

    I think the author was being generous to Middleton here.
     
  13. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

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    I think Blumenson was missing a few things. The 79th ID did continue the attack during the night of 26 July. The 90th Division managed to bypass St Germain sur Seves on its right during the day, but the left remained hung up by German resistance...it had little choice but to regroup overnight to reinforce the right. The 83d ID reached its objective at dark (c. 2200 hours) after over 16 hours of continuous slogging. Just not sure how any of them could have done much more to "continue the attack during the night".

    Sorry, limited time available, I may not be able to touch on this much for a while.
     

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