Split from "Best divisional commanders" Regarding Sepp D and his rank! Dietrich commanded the Liebstandarte as a divisional commader Gruppenfuhrer(?) until his promotion to Obergruppenfuhrer in mid-1943 - whereafter he took command of the newly created I SS Panzer Corps (Hausser's Corps then became the II SS PC) and later Oberstgruppenfuhrer (General Colonel?! Anyway, the highest form of General in Germany) on the 1st of August, 1944. The promotion was made retroactiv for some reason - senority, perhaps?! He appeares to be a much better officer than reputed. James Lucas offers a good portraite - I think - in Hitler's Enforcers. Did anyone mention Von Manteuffle? Didn't he end up commanding Grossdeutschsland after a fout as C-in-C of the 7th Panzer (Rommel's old outfit)? Best regards! - Bluenote.
Hasso von Manteuffel commanded 5th Panzer Army in the Ardennes, and ended the war in command of 3rd Panzer Army which was a part of Heinrici's army group defending the Oder line. He seems to have been pretty good as a commander of these forces, but failed simply because he lacked supply of anything and everything. Re: SS ranks, Oberstgruppenführer equals the four-star General of most other armed forces, a rank equal to General der Panzertruppen or General der Infanterie in te Wehrmacht.
I don't think so, Roel. A four-star general would an Obergruppenführer. Four stars are an "ordinary" generall. Three stars is a Lt.Gen, two a Gen.Maj. and one is must be a Brig.Gen. I tend to believe that General Oberst/Oberstgruppenführer is a rank not found nowadays or? Check out: http://www.feldgrau.com/ranks.html I believe it to be correct! Regarding von Manteuffle: he did command the Grossdeutschland before the Ardennes, didn't he? And before that the 7th Panzer, or am I totally mistaken? Hm, I'm pretty sure, I read that somewhere! Best regards and all! - Bluenote.
According to my source (which is also a "somewhere on the internet" thing I'm afraid) the ranks of Generaloberst and General der Infanterie/Panzertruppen on the list on Feldgrau should be reversed, leading to Obergruppenführer being Generaloberst and Oberstgruppenführer being General. I don't know if anyone can give any decisive information regarding which rank is higher, Generaloberst or General? I'm sorry to say I don't know anything about Hasso von Manteuffel before the Ardennes offensive (which is my field).
Well, I'm pretty certain the list is in ordnung, as Wiki states the very same: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel-General The insignia is shown here: http://www.nuav.net/SS-insignia.html Of course these sources might be wrong, but I'm fairly certain they're not! Best regads! - B.
Source: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/USA ... nel-H.html A U.S. Brigadier General is a one star, General of the Army is a five star. Oberstgruppenfurher would therefore be equivalent to a four star general. A General der Panzertruppen would be a three star. I'm lookng for a definitive comparison with British Commonwealth ranks.
Maybe we should create a separate thread for our little rank debate? Anyway, in Germany during the war and nowadays a division was and is commanded by a Generalmajor, which as we know correspond to a two-star general in the US Army. The ranks pretty much are alike: Generalmajor equals Major General (two stars and divisional command), Generalleutnant equals Lieutenant General (three stars) and General equals, well, General (four stars). Since the Third Reich, the Heer and Luftwaffe at least, did not use the rank of Brigadier General, Major General normally served as the first and junior-most General rank, again in command of a division sized unit. Now, the SS had a Brigadefuhrer rank, which was equal to an Army Generalmajor (shoulder boards were identical, wheras the collar taps were not) - the complete title was SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Waffen-SS . In the Third Reich, and before, a General and a Generaloberst was pretty much the same, its just a question of seniority as they basically do the same Job. According to Wiki the reason for the appearance of the Generaloberst-rank was due to the need of promoting Prince Wilhem: In 1854 the rank of Generaloberst was created in order to promote Prince Wilhelm to senior rank without breaking the rule that only wartime field commanders could receive the rank of Field Marshal. To recap: An Obergruppenfuhrer is equal to a General (four stars) and an Oberstgruppenfuhrer is eual to a Generaloberst (which basicly is a senior four-star general). Respectively the ranks are called SS-Obergruppenführer und General der Waffen-SS and SS-Oberstgruppenführer und Generaloberst der Waffen-SS. Sepp Dietric fx. ended up as a SS-Oberstgruppenführer und Panzer-Generaloberst der Waffen-SS (according to Wiki...) I suppose an American General of the Army (or Air Force btw) is equal to a German Field Marshal as it appears to be used in wartime only. Much of the confusions, I would seem, stems from the Allied use of Brigadier Generals and the Germans general D) lack of said rank. The best thing to do, I'd say, is to look at the ranks job description, so to say, and compare that! Best regards and all! - B.
I would assume that in most militaries there is a great deal of respect for ranks, either instinctive or indoctrinated, so that this kind of event wouldn't actually ever happen. I doubt it is recommendable though... "We can't make you do anything, but we can make you wish you had."
