"Best" antitank weapon of WWII.

Like the Ardens, the Hungary offensive was just a loss of men, equipment and resources. They were offensive opperations just because they attacked. No real gain has been won.

The overall german army was in defence after the battle of Kursk. In defence, assault guns and AT guns were more usefull then tanks, and cheaper (3 Stugs could be produced at the price of 2 tanks based on the same chassis).

My vote goes to the FlaK 88 and the german crew that manned the beast. A gun is no better then the crew. They made history.

 

Yes, but that is not the reason why they were made. After all, even during the Battle of Berlin Hitler was still planning offensive operations on the other side of the Oder.

 

Almost all Flak had been removed from the city and sent to the front. AKAIK the only major flak battreies remaining in Berlin where those mounted on the flak towers (ie the double 12.8 mm, those weren't going anywhere)

as for the static mounted guns, a makeshift platform from welded steel was produced to put these in the field.

You have the remember that the defence of the Oder front was a desperate affair and every available weapon was used. (the military realised that the Oder was the last defensible line, when that was lost the war could better be over as fast as possible) For example they even mounted old 75L24 guns from surplus stocks on welded metal platforms and sent them to the front as "festungs pak"

AFAIK most of the 88mm flaks had already been send to the Vistula front some months before. What was sent to the Oder front after that were mainly reobored Russian waepons. Also at thsi point of the war, the flak defence of many cities (including Berlin) had been almost given up and only special industries (fuel production, u boat production etc...) still had flak belts.

So, in general, the heavy weapons used in the defence of Berlin were mainly those brought along by retreating troops and some old stuff found in warehouses (even 1919 vintage armoured cars.... )

Aglooka

 

I have seen pix of an 8.8 cm PAK that was on a mount similar to that of the 7.5 cm PAK, ie, relatively low profile, 2 wheels, splash shield, etc. Does anyone know anything about it? I'd think it could be brought into action more quickly than the 8.8 Flak gun. Also, I'm not sure anyone mentioned crew survivability in the discussions on "best AT." Any towed gun, unless in a really well-constructed bunker or extremely well camouflaged position is going to have a life span similar to that of an infantry 2d Lt. And, in mobile warfare, that well-prepared postion won't be available. This line of reasoning leads me to conclude that a SP gun with at least a little armor is going to be the best AT gun carrier. When it comes to a specific gun, it'll depend on what size beastie you're trying to kill.

 

Most SP guns didn't have much more armour than that of the shield on towed AT guns, and therefore protection would have been similar. However since an SP gun is mobile by definition, crew survivabilty would be enhanced by a great speed in deployment and withdrawal.

The gun you are referring to, by the way, is the Pak43 88mm L/71, the gun used on such vehicles as the Tiger II, Nashorn, Jagdpanther and Elefant but in a field conversion similar to the Pak40. If a bit bigger.

 

Just for amusement, what do you think of this WW2 SPAT

 

Sorry, I thought it will upload the picture.

 

Sorry, that's no longer possible. If your picture is on a website somewhere you could hyperlink it. If you have trouble hyperlinking pictures or don't know how to do it, please read this topic:

http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1219

 

SP 155 mm.. with posit fuze 45 Kilo projectile

It was voted absolutely most dangerous on an other forum.

One made Jochim Pieper say "merry Christmas" in the Ardennes & tore the heck out of Aachen..

URBAN LEGEND?


The postwar claims as to the value of the much touted, VT fuze in halting the German advance are grossly exaggerated.

The proximity fuze, a tightly guarded American secret design for detonating projectiles by external influence in the close vicinity of a target, without explosion by contact, got its first battle test in a ground role during the Ardennes. This fuze, also known as the VT or POZIT fuze, had been prepared for some 210,000 rounds of artillery ammunition on the Continent in December.


http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/books/wwii/7-8/7-8_25.htm


I have posted about this before..

http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopi ... 6ddbd02d12

THOUGH THE 200 MM & 155 MM WERE NOT REALLY AVAILABLE MUCH..

 

Peiper's unit had been obliterated before Christmas of 1944. As far as I know he was not in action after his flight from the encirclement at La Gleize.

I assume you mean the 203mm (8 inch)?

As an aside, this type of artillery shell isn't really an AT weapon, though no doubt it was effective in that role.

 

The order to destroy their equipment and start walking back to Germany was the code word: MERRY CHRISTMAS.


Finally on 23 December Peiper received permission to break his force out of La Gleize and move to link up with his division. The remaining 850 soldiers of the kampfgruppe moved out on foot at 2:00 am on 24 December. With them were the officers and men of s. SS-Pz.Abt. 501 who had fought in La Gleize: von Westernhagen; his adjutant Kalinowsky (who was wounded); company commanders Wessel, Möbius, and Birnschein (badly wounded); and the remaining Tiger crews. The wounded who could not walk were left behind in the village under the care of SS medics. Also left behind was a small defensive covering force, which had the mission of wrecking the remaining operational tanks and heavy weapons after the kampfgruppe departed. For the next day and a half Peiper led his men along a circuitous route through the woods which he hoped would avoid enemy patrols and bring him to the German positions east of the Salm River. After several brushes with the enemy the kampfgruppe elements crossed the Salm and reached the lines of the 1. SS-Panzerdivision. Most of the men had to swim the Salm, and von Westernhagen described the men of his group as walking icicles as they reached the division command post on Christmas morning. (21)



http://ss501panzer.com/Battle_21-25_Dec.htm



Yes, 8 inches for us American & Brits

 

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=& ... tnG=Search

I will find support for the Merry Christmas code word later

 

Your source does not mention this, and neither does any of my sources. Where did you find this codeword?

 

I was thinking it was one of the chapter titles in

A time for trumpets, Mc Donald..

But I checked on -line @ amazon..

Nicht So

 

All I can find is a rather unsupported Christmas + Peiper anecdote in Robin Cross, "The Battle of the Bulge 1944" (2003).

According to this source, when Peiper was leading his column of 800-900 men from La Gleize to the German lines east of the Salm in the early hours of December 24th, he was with an American major whom his unit had taken prisoner. During the march at some point Peiper is said to have pointed at a pine tree and sarcastically remarking that this tree was the Christmas tree he'd promised the American major.

 

I am sure my source is McDonalds book, have you read it?

I even thought that was the name of the chapter, maybe on an earlier edition..

The quote is nearly as famous as his bicycle quote..

 

I would not have made the original reference unless I thought it was well known, last time I was in Germany talking about tanks with some guys the subject came up..

Along with his 'you could not push a bicyle, never mind a Tiger, along many of those small icy raods"

 

I have not read "A Time for Trumpets". However I do own a copy of "Fire", a detailed account of Kampfgruppe Peiper's march from December 16th to December 24th written by a local historian. It does not mention any codeword for Peiper's withdrawal.

 

I really need to read that, is it good..

Pieper is one of my favorite subjects..

 

If anyone mentioned the PIAT, it is not so great because the reload time is pprently pretty long, because the soldier would have to use a lot of energy to push the spring back.
i had a picture of a soldier reloading one, but I cannot find it on my comp