AK-47 in WW2?

Hi!

We know Kalashnikov designed the AK towards the end of WW2. Was it ever used against the intended enemy, the Nazis, even if for some prototypes only? Thanks.

 

No. The AK 47 wasn't produced in any great quantity until about 1948. The SKS was the first true Soviet designed Assault Rifle which also didn't see much use in WW2. The SKS came in to service in the last few month of the war.

See the SVT 40 thread. The SVT was the only Semi-Automatic weapon used in any quantity by the Russians during WW2 with about 1.6 million being produced. Not perfect but it did the job. The SKS was it's replacement and the AK 47 then superceding the SKS.



Left - Early SKS. Right - AK 47 & SKS comparison. The SKS was based on the unsuccessful Simonov designed AVS 36 Semi Automatic Rifle which lost out to Tokarev's SVT 38 in a 1930's design competition. Simonov then came up with the SKS in 1945 which would begin to replace the SVT and the Mosin Nagant although few were produced during WW2. It wasn't until 1949 that full SKS production was achieved. A major user of the SKS was the Viet Cong during that conflict.

 

this weapon is one of the greatest in the world.it still is in the endowment of many armies.It can kill a man from 2km far and has a lot of qualities among witch it can shoot in the watter and even after it gets wet.it is almost indestructible.

 

Ya, the AK wasn't first really used until after the war. If it had been it could have made something of a difference. This is arguably one of the best designed guns in history according to many people.

 

it was created in 1947. thats the reason its call ak47

 

The AK can do a lot but I believe it's effective range (sighted) is only around 300 meters. A lot of guns can be fired underwater, although it'll be ill-advised to intentionally fire an AK underwater, especially if the person firing it is also underwater.

Compared to other modern assault rifles, the AK's bullet is poorly powered, there's much to be desired over the design, it isn't accurate, and it's heavy. And I would love to have one. Only, it's illegal as hell to own a regular m4 here, much less an "evil" assault rifle.

BTW, what can you say about this little beauty? It's a Zastava M9...

 

I think you'll find that 300M is the effective range of just about all assault weapons, and the reason why all assault weapons have their 'Battle' sights zeroed to 300M(approx) on manufacture.

 

Yep, even for m16s and m14s. Although supporters of the 2 would insist that max effective range for both is around 500 meters. I would love to hear from WW2 vets what is the most common range of encounters during their time. For modern combat, it seems to be around 100 meters, which is certainly within the capabilities of the 7.62x39mm.

BTW, according to his wife, Mikhael was supposedly inspired to build the AK by her Singer sewing machine, of all things. What's most interesting is both Garand and Browning has their influence in the AK.

 

I own an SKS, an AK 47 and an M1A. The SKS shoots accurately out to 300 yards. The M1A shoots further that I can see clearly and I would never try to hit anything with the AK 47 over 100 yards away. I think the AK rep is based on the auto version and its incredible reliability. I would never allow my AR 15 get dirty.

Richard Pruitt

 

My understanding is that in WWII the average (mean) range was under 100m for infantry weapons that would likely indicate both the median and the mode (most common) would also be under 100m. The problem though is how often it exceeds that. Apparently it was happening often enough in Afghanistan that alternatives to the M-4 were considered desirable in at least some areas. Indeed I think recall reading something about M-14's being issued on a limited bases.

 

One problem in Afghanistan seems to be the 5.56mm round. After it goes several hundred yards, the speed drops off a bit and the bullet can be pushed around by cross breezes. The 308 has a greater mass and does not get pushed around as much. Another problem is Combat ranges. You can climb a ridge and get shot at by someone on the next ridge 400 or more yards away. This person can be at a greater elevation than you are. By the time you get there he could be gone to the next ridge over! Afghans are raised in these elevations and can run up and down ridges at greater speeds than a typical American.

The weapon of choice for these tactics is a Lee Enfield in 303. A Soviet GPMG can also reach out and touch you. The US Army could use a GPMG in 308 to match these guns but we got rid of the M 60. American Squads typically use a SAW which uses the same 5.56 round mentioned above. American Snipers do not have a problem as the use M-14 variants and even 50 caliber Barrets.

 

Never walk a ridge...that's basic training. Ive seen it done and winced every time. You can be seen for miles...you walk in the valley. Ah the M60...what a machine! 7.62 was part of its magic...this (infuriating) 5.56 is sub standard IMO (for whats that's worth!) Low penetration against armour (or trees) moves too fast, so some who have been hit by it don't even realise...and keep fighting. Despite increases in cavitation I still believe its only on the cusp of being an anti personnel round.

 

This is the closest thing to anything resembling an AK-47 seeing service in WW2. Meet the StG 44.



StG 44 - Wikipedia

 

It should be noted that the famous German (Nazi) gun designer, Hugo Schmeisser, was in the same plant in Izhevsk when the AK 47 was revamped into the AKM which was the AK-47 variant that was made to be easier to mass produce. Schmeisser, with his background in producing the easily mass produced Sturmgehwehr, may have had a hand in developing the more common variant of the AK.

 

Way OT but ...
A buddy of mine in college was in ROTC. I think it was during a training session over the summer that he was in charge of a platoon infantry assault. They were advancing on the OPFOR position which was on the other side of a hill. He got on the radio for some reason and neglected to watch what was happening around him. The whole platoon more or less crested the hill at the same time. The OPFOR guys said it was really impressive. The umpires judged it a rather costly loss.

 

The only defect that I notice on the piece of weaponry is that it has no bayonet lug. To me, it's not the all-round assault rifle without it.

 

If you are bringing a knife to a gunfight, you are doing it wrong.

 

No slick, in this case I'd be taking a knife AND a gun to a gun fight. Bangity bang AND stickety stick. If the bullet launcher runs out of bullets, you can always rely on the big filet knife to get you out of a bind.

 

Or the Mosin-Nagant which has been found in similar quantities to the Lee-Enfield, and shares a common round (7.62 x 54R) with the PK/PKM machine guns most commonly fielded by the enemy.

The US Army (primarily M240 Bravo) and Marine Corps (primarily M240 Golf) still field an excellent GPMG, the M-240. It fires the same 7.62x51 NATO (.308) as the M-60 did.

 

If you have to stickety stick after bangity bang...You really should be spending more time on the practice range.

If your bullet launcher runs out of bullets before the enemies bullet launchers run out of bullets, the big filet knife is not going to get you out of the jam.