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Synthetic fuel

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Stewie Griffin, Mar 21, 2008.

  1. knightdepaix

    knightdepaix Member

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  2. knightdepaix

    knightdepaix Member

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    GTL - Wikipedia
    南樺太炭鉱鉄道 - Wikipedia
    帝国燃料興業 - Wikipedia
    Air raids on Japan - Wikipedia

    The chemical process for synthetic fuel was initially coal liquefaction (CTL) and then expanded to the process for gas to liquids (GTL). Despite the higher price of synthetic fuels by the CTL or GTL to that of crude oil before ww2, Germany advanced researches for the two processes due to the perception that the British Navy would seal off transportation. During the ww2, the GTL produced synthetic petroleum and the CTL produced fuels for military and civilian use.

    Japan introduced the advanced GTL process from Germany but insufficient supplies and technical ability of Japan hampered progress. Factories were bombed and destroyed so in the end the attempt failed. An act of the law was enacted on August 10th 1937. Two GTL factories were completed in 1940 in Ōmuta, Fukuoka in Kyūshū and Takikawa, Sorachi in Hokkaido. The factories produced gasoline, light oil and wax but the scale of production did not meet wartime demand. The factory in Omuta was destroyed by bombing in 1945. However, the Wikipedia article in English language on the air raids on Japan expressed that
    1) June 17, 1945 -- B-29s incendiary raids against Ōmuta
    2) June 19, 1945 -- two wings operation against Fukuoka
    3) June 19, 1945 night -- B-29s firebombed Fukuoka
    4) July 26, 1945 -- two wings operation against Ōmuta
    5) July 26, 1945 -- firebombing against Ōmuta
    6) August 7, 1945 -- Okinawa-based aircraft unsuccessfully a coal liquefaction plant in Ōmuta.

    Given the dates and descriptions, only one sortie in the June 19, 1945 night by two B-29s wings against Fukuoka and another one in two wings operation against Ōmuta on July 26, 1945 were likely performed. Only the August 7 raid was explicitly stated for unsuccessful bombing the plant. If all information is taken as accurate, given the firebombed Ōmuta city in just roughly two weeks ago, the production ability of the plant would likely be destructed due to unavailable supplies

    Bombing also forced other factories incomplete in process of construction. The factory in Takikawa continued operation until 1952 when insufficient profitability collapsed its business. Worth mentioning was the comparison of synthetic and crude oil price at that time. Crude oil price was $100 per barrel in 2012 but only $4 at the time. The cost of the GTL or CTL production was $30 per barrel and selling price was $50 per barrel.

    On Sakhalin, Mitsubishi established its own coal liquefaction limited corporation on August 18th 1937. Karafuto Synthetic Oil (company) was established on August 1st 1943. On September 25th 1944, The Mitsubishi corporation merged to become Imperial Fuel Industry Limited Corporation (IFI Ltd.). IFI Ltd. merged with Karafuto Synthetic Oil in March 1945. However, these pieces of information did not mention oil production so the oil production by GTL of these companies on Sakhalin cannot be verified given the Wikipedia articles in Japanese language.
     
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
  3. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Japan was hampered neither by insufficient supplies nor technical ability. You see, Japan was second only to Germany in subsidizing and funding research and production of synthetic oil and fuel. Japan's downfall in synthetic fuel was that they tried to do too much too soon. Think of it as running for Olympic gold right after learning how to walk...It's not happening. This is what Japan tried to do in the arena of synthetic fuel. They tried to go into full scale production before completing all of the necessary pilot program "baby steps" first.

    Didn't we have this discussion before in the "What if Japan Joined in operation Barbarossa" thread?
    http://www.ww2f.com/threads/what-if-japan-joined-in-operation-barbarossa.17003/page-3
    Yes, yes we did...

    Ummm...The factories were not bombed until late 1945. So, this does not account for the repeated Japanese failures with GTL in the many years prior.

    That would be the Seven-Year Plan of 1937, which called for an annual production of 12.6 million barrels of synthetic gasoline and fuel oil.

    Trying to make sense of this...Way to much disinformation. So let's reboot.

    There were 5 Fischer-Tropsch(GTL) plants under construction or planned for construction in 1940.
    The Miike plant near Omuta, Kyushu, which began production in May, 1940.
    The Takikawa plant on Hokkaido, which began production in December, 1942.
    The Amagasaki plant on Honshu, which began production in September, 1943.
    The two others were never completed during the war, and were located in Manchuria, at Chielin and Chinchu.

    More specifically, the factories produced low octane gasoline, high cetane diesel oil, propane, butanes, and paraffin waxes.
    ...but the scale of production did not meet wartime demand. Now, this is an understatement of galactic proportions. The scale was well well below wartime demand...As in not in the same country as the ballpark.

    Compounding this was that all three plants were operating well under maximum capacity. Miike had a yearly operating capacity of 29,721 kL, but at it's peak, in 1943, only produced 13,870kL. Amagasaki also had an operating capacity of 29,721kL, but only produced 200kL in 1943, and 130kL in 1944. Finally, Takikawa had an operating capacity of 49,535kL, but in it's peak year of 1944, only produced 6,610kL.

    I'm surprised it lasted that long, given a retail price of 152-177 yen vs. a production cost of 320-340 yen. Without government handouts, they were not going to last very long at all.


    Actually, it was 1934 when construction began, and it was completed and began operation in 1935.

    The Mitsubishi Corporation did not "merge" period. Mitsubishi sold off the plant to the Japanese government because, while Naihoro was one of the largest producers, it was operating at an abysmal 5.85% efficiency. Your confusion likely stems from the company name that owned and operated Imperial Fuel...Mitsui Bussan KK.

    From 1940-1945, Naihoro produced 18.79 million gallons of liquid fuel.

    Cheers!
     
  4. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Some additions, as I was working on the unedited post.

    The initial Japanese process for synthetic fuel was Low-Temperature Carbonization(LTC), which Japan took to with gusto. It's not a chemical process, but thermal decomposition of coal in the absence of air. Both coal liquefaction and Fischer-Tropsch Synthesis came slightly later, and the Japanese did not enjoy the same success with these more efficient processes than they did with LTC.


    Amusing...knightdepaix, you have done enough research on this subject to know why this is so amusing.

    The August 7th bombing of a coal liquefaction plant in Ōmuta was unsuccessful because...There was no coal liquefaction plant in Ōmuta. It was a Fischer-Tropsch Synthesis plant. FYI - Japan had only two coal liquefaction plants, and neither one was in Japan proper. The first was in Fushun, Manchuria, and the other was in Agochi, Korea.

    Despite, Wikipedia's statement to the contrary...The August 7th bombing was successful - while the plant itself did not receive much damage, it's gas generating equipment was crippled, forcing the plant to shut down.

    AFAIK, the fire bombings had little to no direct effect on the Miike plant.

    Cheers.
     
  5. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Forgot to add that the article "Synthetic Fuel Production in Prewar and World War II Japan: A case study in Technological Failure" by Anthony N. Strangers, in "Annals of Science", 50:3, pg 229-265.
    Will provide you with a good history of Japanese synthetic fuels during this time frame.

    A hunt on the internet will turn up a downloadable copy or three.

    Other useful sources I have already mentioned in another thread:
    You can start with:
    "Oil from the Wells of China", by Laurence J. C. Ma, Geographical Review, Vol. 70, No. 1 (Jan., 1980), pp. 99-101
    "Physics of Sedimentology: Textbook and Reference" By Kenneth J. Hsü - beginning on pg 205.

    "The Industrialization of Japan and Manchukuo, 1930-1940, Volume 8", edited by Elizabeth Boody Schumpeter
    https://www.jstage.jst.go.jp/article/japt/70/3/70_3_250/_pdf

    http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ Reports/USNTMJ_toc.htm
    A word of note - the Fischer-Tropsch Archive is currently unavailable/offline. But can be accessed by using the Internet Archive's "Wayback Machine".
    REPORTS OF THE U.S. NAVAL TECHNICAL MISSION TO JAPAN


    Scroll down to [SIZE=9pt]SERIES X: MISCELLANEOUS TARGETS[/SIZE] as there are several useful reports in the JM-200-L & JM-200-M series.

    Again, "The Industrialization of Japan and Manchukuo, 1930-1940, Volume 8", edited by Elizabeth Boody Schumpeter

    "Japanese-German Business Relations: Co-operation and Rivalry in the Interwar Period" by Akira Kudo.
     
    lwd and green slime like this.
  6. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Not really pertinent to the current drift of this thread, but when Peiper and his 1st SS seized the American fuel depot at Bullingen in their advance through the Ardennes, they were jubilant about the improved performance the superior gasoline gave them. It seems like every German memoir clearly remembers that fuel and how much better their various vehicles ran. The same men can't remember a thing about the various atrocities, but they remember that American gas.
     
  7. wm.

    wm. Well-Known Member

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    The Germans were probably using a mixture of gasoline and diesel oil, or some other "innovative" blend.
    But they were lucky, in my town, in 1945 there was a desperate (and badly organized) breakout attempt from a Soviet encirclement. And it was spearheaded by a tank running on holgas - that must have been fun.
    They were all massacred, at that time the Soviets knew how to fight.
     
  8. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Considering the original drift of this thread was concerning the synthetic fuel used in the Luftwaffe, your drifting back to the original intent.

    Sources differ on the octane used by German vehicles, I have seen it as low as 45-50 octane, on up to 70-74 octane.
    From the Lone Sentry website, I found this:
    Gas and Oil in German Mechanized Vehicles, WWII Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 21, March 25, 1943 (Lone Sentry)
    "Gas and Oil in German Mechanized Vehicles" from Tactical and Technical Trends, No. 21, March 25, 1943.
    However, the article does not specify if this is "normal" gasoline or synthetically derived gasoline.

    Although the second paragraph, about the possible difficulties with starting in cold weather could point to why the Peiper's group preferred it during the winter offensive in the Ardennes.

    IIRC, the Japanese used rather low octane fuel, 40-50 octane, in their trucks.
     
  9. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Who knows what they were using in the Ardennes when they really had to stretch to provide enough fuel for this huge offensive. The difference between their fuel and the captured fuel was great enough that everyone talked about it.
     

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