The (free) French navy during the battle of the atlantic.

Hello,

As a french who lives in a strong sea lovers area of France( Marseille), a lot of the old generation had a lot of conection to the naval forces (of whom a lot of Indochina,Algeria and in some cases WW2 veterants), so i was always intereted with the navale warfare of the war.

I would like to know if the French (or in that case the free french naval forces (FNFL) took any role during the battle for the Atlantic, as far as my research went (according to french wikipedia) France lost 11k sailors (515 officers) (3000 of whom being in the merchant navy) and lost 117 war vessel for 650 merchant vessels, but couldnt find more sources/history/information.. i also found the corvette named "Aconit" had sunk 16 u-Boots during the campaign.

So if any has some information i would gladly appreciated!

 

Did they not sink the Fleet themselves to make it impossible for Germans to use the French Fleet?

 

Do you have sources for this? As far as I know, the Aconit(ex-HMS Aconite) sank only 1 U-Boat and assisted in sinking another, both on the same day (U-432 & U-444).

You should also look up 2 books by John Jordan & Jean Moulin - "French Destroyers Torpilleurs d'Escadre & Contre-Torpilleurs, 1922-1956" and "French Cruisers 1922-1956", both give detailed analysis of the ships, as well as detailed accounts of the actions the French Navy participated in.

Henri Le Masson wrote 2 Volumes for the "Navies of the Second World War" series. The first 50 pages of Volume I cover the genesis of the WW2 French Navy and the actions they took part in.

 

68 French vessels were either in the UK or Alexandria, Egypt, also FNFL sailors manned 9 Flower-Class Corvettes in the Battle of the Atlantic.

 

The ships that were in Toulon in November 1942, when the Germans took over Vichy France. A number of ships were salvaged by the Germans or Italians, and a few under construction were also captured. Those which appeared usable were initially assigned to the Italians, then most were taken over again by the Germans when Italy signed its armistice with the Allies. Only a few small craft were used operationally by the Axis.

A few ships were captured in French ports in 1940, including four Flower-class corvettes under construction, three of which were put into German service.

Besides the ships @Takao mentioned, there were ships in various ports around the French colonial empire such as Casablanca, Dakar, Beirut, and Martinique. Some of these fought briefly against the Allies (Dakar, Syria, Torch) but most joined them after November 1942.

 

"Pendant le second conflit mondial, 11 000 marins français sont morts ou disparus, 8 000 de la Marine de guerre et 3 000 de la Marine marchande. 117 navires militaires — sans compter les petits bâtiments et les bâtiments auxiliaires — ont été coulés au 1er avril 1945 dont onze par l'aviation80 ainsi que 650 navires marchands"

(brief translation) "During the 2nd world war, 11K french sailors were either killed or MIA, 8000 of whom came from the naval forces and 3000 were in the merchant navy, 117 war vessels (witheout mentioning lesser vessels such as auxiliary ships)- [weird transition there??] - were scutled the 1st of april, of whom eleven from the aviation[luftwaffe] and 650 merchant ship"

And for the aconit you were right, it's my error, the FNFL sunk 16 uboot during their time of services (1940-43..before merging with the ex-Vichy forces in 1943) , not the Aconit alone my bad!

 

Some war vessels (such as the RIchelieu and the Jean bart and several cruiser joined the French forces in Algier) by 1945 the french navy (allthough badly bloodied by the infamous Toulon episode) was still intact with a 95,000 strong personnel and 350,000 tons of ships (of whom 4 battleship and one aircraft carrier (obsolete though..)

also i did a mistake, i should i've said France involvment in the atlantic campaign not only the FNFL, since the FNFL only existed for a brief period of time just like the FFL and the FAFL.

 

Does the 11k figure include Vichy, or just Free French?

 

too be honest i don't really know, like i said there is verryy few sources that deals with this subject, but i would say that the majority (or a least a good 40%) were from the vichy forces (operation catabult, torch, battle of syria, madagascar and Senegal were costly battle for the vichyste) also (this is a weird thing) a lot of Naval officers joined the resistance and were killed/tortured/deported/ shot down by germans forces, and for some reason those casualties were counted into the "naval casualties" but this is just my theory..

also, a lot of French sailors joined the Royal Navy, so maybe those casualties are counted into the french naval casualties.

From my memory 516 french were KIA during the year of 1943 so i would say those casualties are awfully high..godamm even my own country can't register those who died for their country (yhea..beacause i check the french marine memorium..no sources..)

 

After training and work-ups in the US, by January 1945, operating with the USN Fleet Air Wing Fifteen were Free French patrol squadrons and dive bomber squadrons:

• VFP-1 operating PBY-5As out of Agadir (arriving in March 1944) and transitioning to PV-1s starting in July 1944;
• VFP-2 operating PBY-5As out of southern France and Agadir (originally operating from Corsica in September 1944)
• VFB-1 and VFB-2 operating SBD-5s from Port Luaytey (VFB-1 arriving in October 1944 and VFB-2 in November)

The only names I can find right now associated are

• Lieutenant de Vaisseau Patrice Decaix (VFP-1, commanding after Oct 21 1944 and at least through June 30 1945) (Equiv USN or RN Lieutenant)
• Capitaine de Corvette H Pacaud (VFP-2, commanding starting July 1 1944 and at least through June 30 1945) (Equiv USN or RN Lieutenant Commander)

 

Richelieu operated with the British in the Indian Ocean and Far East. Jean Bart, which had been less complete in 1940, was not made operational during the war; but several of her 380mm guns were used on Richelieu. The older battleship Lorraine conducted shore bombardment during the landings in southern France. Eight cruisers and the training cruiser Jeanne d'Arc joined the Allies. Carrier Bearn was used as a transport for aircraft, troops, and equipment.

 

The RIchelieu also operated in the Artic sea between 1943 and 1944, he was called by the british to challenged the german Tripitz, but the Richelieu didnt saw any action as the Tripitz was hiding in Norway for repairs i Believe.

 

Well, she spent very little time with th Home Fleet. Richelieu spent much of 1943 undergoing refit in the US, and did not arrive in Scape Flow into November 20, 1943. With the perceived threat of Tirpity greatly diminished, the French battleship was transferred out of the Home Fleet in April, 1944.

 

From the war diary of NAAS Elizabeth City, NC –

“C. The Station is used for familiarizing qualified pilots with new types of aircraft in organizing new squadrons. The Free French and Project Zebra (USSR) come under this category.

1. On 28 October 1943 the Free French started preliminary training with U. S. owned PBY5A’s and these were replaced with eleven PBY5A’s purchased by the French from the United States on Len-Lease basis.

2. The curriculum for training was 10 hours familiarization flying time, navigation and instrument flying. It was originally planned to complete training and depart om 21 December 1943, but due to weather and delay in delivery of planes, it was not until the week of 17 January 1944. Eleven planes then departed. On 5 March 1944 the last detachment departed.

Of the 38 officers about fifty per cent spoke English, and about thirty percent has a fair vocabulary of English. Of the 270 enlisted men, three to five per cent spoke English.

Lieut. Comdr. C. H. Mirepoix was commanding officer. He was a staunch supporter of De Gaulle. The executive officer was Lieut. Comdr. R L Arnoud.”​

 

An I wrong but I always thought the Germans had a mighty bomber amount in Norway to stop the Convoys. Also reconnaissance for the U-boats but as well for attacking the convoy ships?

 

The French Navy in World War II by Aupaun and Mordal is a good start. It concerns the main fleet (Vichy) and the difficult circumstances it found itself in. The Free French were given corvettes and destroyers and engaged in escort duties.

 

They tried to, although of course there were competing demands from other fronts. They suffered heavy losses against convoy PQ-18 in September 1942, which had an unusually strong escort including sixteen fleet destroyers, the antiaircraft cruiser Scylla, and for the first time an escort carrier. Also the Torch landings and subsequent operations created a demand for anti-shipping aircraft in the western Mediterranean.