Raf in France June 1940 P/O Ap Rhys Pryce

This is one for the Raf specialists. It's about a man who I believe was a great Officer and deserves to be remembered. This Welsch Pilot Officer who died on June 3rd 1940is buried in Orleans. He was born in 1905 and was a career officer. The CWGC site shows that he had a tremendous amount of degrees and distinctions from the Best Universities of Britain and elswhere. It also mentions that he is the son of a WWI Infantery General who was a Lord. The trouble is that I did not find any Raf losses in this area on June 3rd, not even in May. I Believe this man stayed over a week at Bethenville in the Ardennes after the Raf retreated and with a few men they managed to save several Huricanes by taking spares from wreckages and fixing broken aircraft.
1) Does anybody know how MR Pryce died?
2) Could somebody tell me which Squadron he belonged to (105 , 103? )
3) Did he fly Hurricanes? And if yes, does someone know the details of his aircraft?
Thank you in advance.

 

Definitely one for the specialists!

Fighter Command is not my specialty but
I cannot find this person on the CWG site.

Perhaps you could post a link e.g.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2265944

Robin Riley www.156Squadron.com

 

Here is the CWGC link.

If this doesn't work, I got it by going to the CWGC site, then type "Orleans" and this pilot is listed on first page of the casualties under "AP" .


http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2766827

 

I found some more info by accident while reading Chorley's 1944 Bomber Command . M A Ap Rhys Price is mentionned on page 352 as a "non flying aircrew". Considering he died near Orleans on June 3rd, it would be reasonable to assume he died on his base during a german ground attack( at Ouzouer?) Therefore I would appreciate if anyone could tell me where the British Squadrons were based near the Loire front (Orleans area) in June 1940.
Also any info about German June 3rd air operations would be welcome.

 

I'm a new member here, and I think I can help a bit with this interesting casualty...

Here's the obituary from The Times of 23 July 1940:

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PILOT OFFICER M. A. AP RHYS PRYCE
A correspondent writes :-
Pilot Officer Mervyn Aleck ap Rhys Pryce, of the Royal Air Force Volunteer Reserve, younger son of General Sir Henry and Lady ap Rhys Pryce, was killed in an air raid in France. He will be missed by a large circle of friends who admired his brilliant attainments, cheerful conversation, and lovable character. He was educated at Bowden House, Seaford, Marlborough College, and Caius College, Cambridge. At the University he took honours in the Mechanical Science Tripos and just missed his Rugby Blue owing to a broken knee cap which stopped his playing. He entered the oil world in Venezuela, the United States, and Trinidad and became one of the Western Hemisphere's foremost oil engineers, and was responsible for some useful oil practice inventions and many excellent articles in both British and U.S.A. oil papers. His influence over people was great owing to his straightforward character and considerateness. During the oil riots in Trinidad, when acting as a Justice of the Peace, his words alone were sufficient to disperse a mob, who cheered him on dispersing. A great sportsman, especially in yachting, he at one time maintained six International Star yachts. On the war breaking out he came home from Trinidad and joined the R.A.F., going over to France almost immediately. There his leadership and example were a great inspiration to his unit, who deeply mourn the loss of their C.O. whose death occurred when he volunteered for a special job. As one of his comrades wrote: He was absolutely fearless and stood out head and shoulders as a good officer and a kind friend," and it is sad to think of his going at the early age of 35.
-------------

That gives a lot about his background, but very little about the circumstances of his death, which were no doubt kept quiet since it was wartime.

I checked the registers for Marlborough and Caius, and the 9th edition of the Marlborough register says that he was "killed on active service at Villa Coublay, France, 3 June 1940".

There was an airfield at Villa Coublay, which is 9 miles SW of Paris, and 60 miles NNE of Orleans.

Hope that helps a bit.

Forrest

 

Thank you so much Forest, I owe you one for this information! I can finally answer the veterans who water the flowers on his grave. It is however surprising that the place of his death is mentionned as being Villacoublay. I am wondering whether he was wounded there and evacuated south. I will try to find out whether there was a raid there too on June 3rd. He may also have been based there and straffed near Orleans while driving to Ouzouer where RAF units were transiting that day. Does the article say anyhting about the Squadron he belonged to?
The man has an extraordinary curriculum, he stemmed from a great Welsh family.

 

Glad the information was useful!

The RAF was divided into several Branches, eg the Equipment Branch, Medical Branch, Accountant Branch etc. The largest Branch, at least as far as officers were concerned, was the General Duties Branch, and most officer aircrew found themselves in this Branch. Another, smaller one, was the Administrative and Special Duties Branch, and this was the Branch into which Pilot Officer ap Rhys Pryce was commissioned. See the
London Gazette 23 Jan 1940 Page 465 and London Gazette 23 Jan 1940 Page 466

I therefore don't think that he was aircrew - the RAF may have been hoping that he could put the experience he had gained professionally in the inter-war years to good work, perhaps by sabotaging enemy oil supplies, or by ensuring a good supply to the Allied forces.

He may not have been with a Squadron. There were a large number of other miscellaneous units in the RAF, and he my have been with one of them. Finding out which one is the tricky bit! To make things more difficult, it's possible that he was working for one of the Intelligence organisations like SIS.

Interestingly, his father, General Henry Edward ap Rhys Pryce, wrote a letter to The Times a few months after his son's death. It may well be relevant to what his son was doing at an airfield near Paris, since the General specifically mentions the benefit of damaging enemy aerodromes and their oil supply...

---------
27 September 1940

Letters to the Editor

REPRISALS - FURTHER ASPECTS OF THE PROBLEM

Sir, - I very much doubt that reprisals on civilians will have any real effect, for we all know that the German soldier, however much we may disapprove of his methods, is a fighter, and he is produced from the German civilian, who presumably can stick trouble as well as the soldier.

Also, if we do as Major Cazalet suggests we neglect our important aim of attaining real air superiority. This can be obtained not only by bringing down more aeroplanes than we lose ourselves, but also by damaging their aerodromes, and whatever produces German air requirements in machines, instruments, spare parts, petrol, and lubricating oil. The more we do this the fewer aeroplanes will come over here, and the more peace will our civilians have.

In the last War, substituting infantry for the civilian and artillery for the air, we had a good example of what really happens. At the beginning it was the custom for infantry in the trenches when shelled to call for retaliation on the enemy's trenches. The infantry casualties were high. But when it was arranged that the artillery should then fire on the enemy's artillery it was not long before the infantry had peace except when a battle was on. The same applies here, and the civilian and our factories in the long run will be less disturbed and victory more sure if we first attain air superiority and disturb the German arrangements for invasion.

Yours faithfully,

HENRY AP RHYS PRYCE, General.
--------------

There are many books nowadays on these intelligence organisations, and it might be worthwhile to check the index of a few the next time you are in a library, or sneak a peek in a bookshop.

You might also want to try the RAF Museum at Hendon to see if they know anything.

Alternatively, since you seem to live close to his grave, his family would probably be very pleased to hear how it's being tended, and in return may be able to give you more details about how he died.

The General had two sons - Mervyn (who we are discussing) and Meyric. Meyric was older, and became the Commanding Officer of the 2nd Bn RWF after the war. He retired as a Brigadier, and died in 1996. Meyric had a son and daughter, and the son, John, graduated from my local university and became a civil engineer, working overseas. He in turn had two sons, one of whom - Tom - was the solicitor who was murdered in January 2006 in London.

I have an address for the family in the South of England, and if you get in touch by PM or via my website, then I'll let you have more details and you can write and introduce yourself. However it may be best to wait a bit, since the high-profile murder trial ended just two weeks ago, and the family will still be in a rather delicate condition.

Forrest

 

Wow, this is really a famous family. What a terrible story about Tom. When I read the stories I see that they must all be very charismatic. I will contact you via a pm for the address in England and obviously I will wait and respect their grief. Thank you again.

 

Skipper did you have any luck when you contacted the family?
Can you tell us anymore about this chap?

 

Well, yes and no. "Yes" because I contacted the family thanks to Forrest a few months ago and got a nice reply saying that I would get more details later. "No" because I haven't received the details yet. I do not want to put any pressure. Hopefully I will get something withing a few weeks. We sometimes visit the grave . If you ever go to Orleans , it's at the main cemetery. There are over 100 graves there, some of whom are still mysteries to me. Others I have found out their stories.

 

Skipper, mon ami.
Next time you are there can you get a photo of this chap from the RAAF.
CWGC :: Casualty Details
GW Woodd.

spidge on WW2Talk is collecting photos of graves of RAAF men.
I've got him a fair few so far, this would help his project.
Merci.

 

Pryce was killed in an air raid. From The Times:



At the time, 212 Squadron was based at Orleans airfield - it was a PRU unit that used Spitfires and Blenheims. As such, he being in the Administrative and Special Duties Branch may indicate photo analysis (though it maybe a number of other things). His age/rank would indicate non-flying duties anyway.

 

Wessex and Amrit these are two nice surprises! Thank you very much for helping me with tracing the life of this gentleman. Since you seem to be experts in the matter I may have other mysteries in the future.

 

By the way, excuse my ignorance but what do the letters PRU stand for?

 

Photo Reconnaissance Unit.

 

Thanks Za