Pius XII Letter

They'd have burned the Vatican down with him in it.

 

I'm not sure the pope's secretary would keep such explosive contents from the pontiff. Taken in conjunction with the following passage from the same article:

... it would appear that if the pope was ignorant of the mass murders occurring, it was willful ignorance.

 

Excluded-middle much?

 

Actually, your explanation only deepens your commitment to your false dichotomy. You see, while everyone knew there was a war on, not everyone believed that the Holocaust was in full swing, rendering your comparisons inapt.

Are you arguing that the pope's words would have no weight had he passed this information along to foreign representatives? Are you saying that since the pope's panzers were nonexistent, absolutely nothing else could be done? Are you saying that his refusal to pass this along to the Allies is a morally neutral action -- or even a good act?

ETA: I just realized that this is a staff member who cast aspersions of "prejudice" at me with no evidence of my being so. Compelled to defend myself, I'd only say that the Catholic Church has plenty to answer for. I think the willingness to overlook its moral failings even as it claims to hold to Objective Morality derived from a Perfect Creator says something about those who reject examining its failings ... and not anything good. If a desire to examine the mistakes of the many agencies involved in war decisions and information is to you an "odd fascination" I'd suggest you buy a thicker rug. This one's too thin to sweep much under it by accusations of prejudice.

 

Here's an ad homeneim fallacy. You think they have nothing to answer for?

Here's a strawman fallacy, because no one accused the Vatican of guilt in Barbarossa or Dresden. That is all simply PIDOOMA from you. As for why he didn't relay this info to the Allies through diplomatic channels, you still refuse to provide an answer, instead mounting a defense based upon calling others "prejudiced" and fluffing about panzer divisions or false accusations.

Trust me, kid, I ain't triggered. I was pointing out that apparently staff not only allow personal attacks but engage in them; not the mark of a balanced mod. I'd suggest you think more before you post.

lol, then spare me the logical fallacies with every post, and address my point. I'm not big on watching tap-dancers and won't make an exception for you.

I notice as well you didn't answer a single one of my questions, to wit:

 

I think you both make some good points (nice to hear two intelligent people argue for a change) - I don't think Otto was casting aspersions, he was reacting to the txt not the person. As a Roman Catholic i think "the church" is as corrupt as any institution on Earth - Indeed i think Christ weeps at his connection with the "organisation".

 

So pointing out your sloppy thinking is now "rhetoric", lol.

In the meantime, let me know when you have a real point to make. I've better things to do than bandy words with someone who cannot answer three simple questions. Now quit dodging.

 

I got a bit lost when the discussion became about the argument rather than the topic. My general starter question when anybody questions inactivity by the Vatican during WW2 is "what exactly could they have done, and how would it have helped?"
Which I think is what Otto was heading towards with his Papal Panzers comment