WWII Forums Quiz Part VII

[Sturmkreuz]

Originally Posted by Slipdigit

That was on 20 Dec 1944

Yes, but I didn't say when he was promoted. Because they had to choose whether Ike Eisenhower would be promoted to a five-star general or not.

[bodston]

On board the Queen Mary en route to the Quebec conference. Can't think of any special significance though.

[skunk works]

Russia declares war on Bulgaria.
Patton starts his Lorianne offensive.
both Ike & Winnie have a good lunch, a constitutional, and a long nap ?

[scarface]

I haven't come up with anything definitve, but I did stumble across this diary of the First Sea Lord, Andrew B. Cunningham, which certainly provides some interesting insights into Churchill and his subordinates.

In the general time frame of September 5, 1944 he records:

==================================

Tues Aug 29

PM's trip put off 12 hours on account of weather so there was no early rising. . . . PM was hurried to his car by [Lord] Moran [Churchill's doctor]. He certainly looked ill . . . two nurses & a specialist had been sent for. I hope it is only wise precautions. It would be a tragedy if anything should happen to him now. With all his faults (& he is the most infuriating man) he has done a great job for the country & besides there is no one else.
----------------------------------------------
Thurs Aug 31
An infuriating telegram from the PM to Alexander just in. Alexander has been up to his old game of complaining about the navy to the PM. I will have it out with the CIGS tomorrow.
----------------------------------------------
Mon Sep 4
(Very busy preparing for trip to Quebec and turning over the business to [Admiral] Syfert).
----------------------------------------------
Tues Sep 5
(Talk with PM) 'If he keeps up his present attitude things should go well in Quebec & it will be what the Americans call a 'love pact.' (LOVE FEAST?) But it takes little to lose his vengeful temper & he will do anything then to get the better of our allies.

He sent for me at about 17:00 to tell me there was a rumour that Germany has capitulated. Also to say that if true he must remain in England & what was to happen if we were two days out & it proved to be true. I said the only thing to do was to turn the ship round & come back.
-----------------------------------------------
Wed Sep 6
The PM persists in thinking that Italy is one of the main theatres whereas as things are going in France & Russia it really has become a theatre of little importance. No meeting with PM today. He is very flat probably as a result of M & B.
------------------------------------------------
Thurs Sep 7
The COS lunched with the PM. What a lunch. A whole dressed crab each, curried chicken with all sorts of trimmings, & some sweet & cheese. I am still feeling the effects. The PM still very flat, not much sparkle about him.
------------------------------------------------
Sep 8
Now in the Gulf Stream
He was in his worst mood. Accusing the COS of ganging up against him & keeping papers from him & so on. Would not see that Italy after Kesselring is again defeated becomes a secondary front & that the real work is on the Russian & Western fronts. Wants at all costs to keep Alexander's army up to full strength even though there are more divisions than Alexander can use. Is determined to have an amphibious operation, to take Istria even though it is of no military consequence & so on & so on. The worst of it is his feeling against the Americans whom he accused of doing the most awful things against the British. There is no question he is not well & is feeling this hot sticky weather. . . . PM sent for the commander & tried to get him to alter out of the Gulf Stream. As this would take him over the Newfoundland Bank he rightly did'nt [sic] like it. Together we went & convinced the PM.
------------------------------------------------
Sun Sep 10
Lunched with the PM as we were entering Halifax [Nova Scotia]. Half lobster & a lamb chop brandy & cheeses!! . . . My compartment had a double bed!! . . . During daylight crowds at the stations to see the PM.
------------------------------------------------
Tues Sep 12 [At Québec] Had a meeting with the PM at 18:30 & found him in a mood of sweet reasonableness.

===================================

No idea where Ike was, but it sounds like he missed some really nice meals!

-whatever

-Lou

[macrusk]

Yes. Churchill was onboard the Queen Mary heading for the Quebec Conference with Franklin Roosevelt, and William Lyon MacKenzie. He was also accompanied by the British chiefs of staff.

Sept 1, 1944 Montgomery was promoted to Field Marshall. On Sept 1 Eisenhower, made a major change of command .... which is a bit of hint as to where he was on Sept 5; and perhaps the significance.

Are there rules about how long before I give the answers?

[skunk works]

nope, you don't ever have to tell.
There's no rule against giving hints though.
If you don't get responses, that means I'm/we're pretty much stumped, confused, clueless.

[Slipdigit]

please throw us another bone...

[macrusk]

A little late as I was in class this evening. Will probably be this time tomorrow as well since I have class again after work.

In a way giving hints is harder that just writing out the answer!!

Eisenhower was not in London, not even England....

One of the books I've been reading lately gave me the extra information. Lou didn't have the right answer, but the significance is related to the geographic area.

Did these help?

[scarface]

No.

[Slipdigit]

Originally Posted by macrusk

Did these help?

I'm still flailing around.

[Sturmkreuz]

Originally Posted by macrusk

Did these help?

Well not really does it have something related with "Nova Scotia"?

[macrusk]

Part 1 answered.

Part 2 hint: Eisenhower's dual role had necessitated a move from his London headquarters to a position closer to the front.

Part 3 hint re significance: 11th Armoured Division Sept 5 and in the future First Canadian Army, Polish Armoured Division, and British 4th Commando Brigade and actually affected the entire Allied Army in NW Europe.

[macrusk]

I'll give the full answer tomorrow and find a different question.

[Slipdigit]

What? We got beat by a...a...a girl? <sticking out lower lip> I'm gonna take my toys and go home...

[Slipdigit]

Was Eisenhower given command of the 6th AG?

[macrusk]

Originally Posted by Slipdigit

What? We got beat by a...a...a girl? <sticking out lower lip> I'm gonna take my toys and go home...

Maybe...but not just any girl!My kid's say I'm different - lol!

[macrusk]

Following not the answer yet

ON September 1st, Eisenhowed made a major change of command. American were 2/3 of the fighting troops in northwest Europe and Eisehnhower had come under intense American pressure to set in motino his long-term plan of taking command of the land forces from Montgomery. He now had the dual responsibility for tactical management of the Allied armies,as well as overal strategic command of the campaign in NW Europe. The reason he changed the location of his headquarters to where he was on Sept 5, 1944. I'm looking for the physical location as its circumstances are part of the significance.

[Slipdigit]

Versailles

[macrusk]

I honestly can't seem to think of hints for where Eisenhower was, so will spill the beans.

Eisenhower was in a remote French villa on the west coast of the Cherbourg Peninsula, his new headquarters were 650 km behind the front lines in a French fishing village of Jollouville. On Sept 5 he was confined to bed rest with a plastered knee after severely wrenching it following his return from one of his personal visits by airplane or jeep to the advanced headquarters of his commanders. These personal visits had been necessitated following the rush to set up headquarters in Normandy, but the location meant he did not have radio or telephone linkups with either his military fronts or his SHAEF headquarters in London. "Most Immediate" signals, sent to and from Eisenhower by wireless code, were being delayed for as long as 3 or 4 days.

Churchill was on the Queen Mary and he was also not immediately in communication with what was happening on Sept 5. He too was ill.

The significance suggested in various reading was that communication with major players was broken down at a time when communication could have made a difference in the length of the war. The British 11th Armoured had driven to the banks of the Albert Canal in Antwerp. They still had 100 litres of petrol per vehicle, with a futher day's supply within reach. General Horrocks was not advised that the highest level of British Intelligence knew that the German 15th Army was trapped in Flanders and was escaping across the Scheldt and then the Beveland Penninsula. If the 11th Armoured had bypassed the city of Antwerp or fought across the bridges to block the Beveland Isthmus they would have cut the main German escape route. The German army would not have been able to reconsolidate on the north side of the Albert Canal and kept the Allied Armies from taking control of the Scheldt Estuary which was key to using the port of Antwerp which was vital as an ongoing major supply point for the Allied Armies.

Sept 5 Eisenhower wrote four paragraphs to Montgomery. Poor lines of communication caused the last half of the letter to reach command headquarters in Brussels first and two days later the beginning paragraph arrived: "While agreeing with your conception of a powerful and full-blooded thrust toward Berlin I do not