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July 2nd, 2002, 12:47 PM
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Hot damn - I found it ! In F W A Hobart's 'Pictorial History of the Machine Gun' !
There's even a photo of the thing - looks a bit like a cross between a Bren and an MG42. Thanks Popski - you forced me to research something I'd previously overlooked.
Come on Ron - over to you and the Pacific Theatre.
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July 3rd, 2002, 06:21 AM
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Yes-lets have a Pacific question
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"GARRY OWEN"-Traditional war-cry of the US 7th Cavalry.
"CURRAHEE"-War-cry of the US 506th PIR.
"Everybody thinks that they are going to get the chance to punch some Nazi in the face at Normandy-and those days are over, they are long gone"-Lt Chris Burnett
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July 3rd, 2002, 06:40 AM
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G'day
OK I'll have a go. Name the two points between which the fist attackwave landed at Guam.
Have a go.
Euro Pop
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Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
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July 3rd, 2002, 08:43 AM
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20/7/44 :
3rd Marine Corps landed either side of Port Apra , 1st Prov. Marine Brigade landed between Port Banji & Agat ?
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July 3rd, 2002, 01:48 PM
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G'day
Bull it says so in my book. over to you. Take us around the world, and everyone join in please
Popski
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Wenn ist das Nunstrück git und Slotermeyer? Ja!.. Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput!
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July 3rd, 2002, 02:37 PM
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Right, a Kursk question.
On the Voronezh front, the last defensible position before the key objective of Oboyan was the Pena River.
On 7th July, 1943, a German Division seized a village and bridge over the Pena, allowing German forces to 'roll up' the Russian front in this sector.
Which Division, and which village ? 
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July 3rd, 2002, 07:31 PM
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OH SHOOT!
HA i am always behind here...i'll have to think up a question!...thanks! 
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Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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July 3rd, 2002, 07:39 PM
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Soon as the Kursk question is answered you can hit mine...unless you know it!
Which two Japanese battleships took part in the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal? And which one was sunk?
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Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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July 3rd, 2002, 07:50 PM
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The 'Kirishima' and 'Hei', the 'Hei' being sunk . . . ?
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July 3rd, 2002, 08:19 PM
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Hallo! This is nearly mine!
Martin, there is a little confussion in my mind about your question but I think I am very close now.
Are you sure it is the Pena river? Isn't it the Psep, Psel or Psyel river, southwest of Oboyan?
All this is in Vorozneh's front, we agree. But there are only two rivers here: the Donets and the Psep, Psel, Psyel or whatever. But the Donets is too far from Oboyan. So, it must be the Psyel river, which is the only one and closer to Oboyan. Althought this sector is not mentioned a lot, because of the huge tank battle in Prokhorovka involving the LSSAH.
But, northwest of Prokhorovka is that river an five bridges with several town, in the sector of 3.SS Panzerdivision "Totenkopf" attached to 2. SS Panzerkorps. I will mention the southern bridges along the Psyel, because the 5th is too far away from Oboyan and there was no toen, just a colective farm.
The first is surely the one you are talking about, Martin, because it is the only one with a town in the East side of the river, it is between the town of Kostromka and Kliutschi.
The next towns are in the Western side of the river:
Bridge 2: Yúdénka
Bridge 3: Mikhalovka
Bridge 4: Prelestnoe, Polezhaev.
So? My head is backwards...
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July 3rd, 2002, 08:48 PM
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Hey, it's nice to make you all work !
Not quite, Friedrich - but you're in the right area.
The Pena is a smaller tributary of the Psel River, upon which is Oboyan. So the Pena had to be crossed a long distance south of Oboyan and way,way before Prokhorovka. But after the Pena was good tank country, difficult to defend.
So, the Pena was crossed at ******* by the ****** Division.....??? 
[ 03 July 2002, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
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July 3rd, 2002, 09:50 PM
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Scheisse!
You are torturing me, Martin, but it is fine, I will answer this now and then this topic will be MINE!!!! And then I will take revenge! Hey, Martin and Ron, you are asking not allowed questions. Be careful or Otto will shoot your feet... He he he!
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"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun
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July 3rd, 2002, 11:42 PM
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lots of great questions here--and I wish I had more time to try to participate in this thread.
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July 4th, 2002, 12:57 AM
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Ha ha ha! Loosers! Now it is all mine!!! (Just kidding... I am just very happy).
Martin, as I said it was 3.SS Panzerdivision "Totenkopf" and the little town was Kartaschevka.
God, I'm good! (Or am I not?)
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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars
"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun
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July 4th, 2002, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Martin Bull:
The 'Kirishima' and 'Hei', the 'Hei' being sunk . . . ?
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Yup that's right. The Kirishima escaped to be sunk a few days later at the 2nd battle of Guadalcanal. The Hiei was badly damaged in the surface engagement. The next morning she was finished off by American bombers.
Well it was nice to have a freebee to get a Pacific theater question in there!...ok you guys can go back to your European war! [img]tongue.gif[/img]
[ 03 July 2002, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Ron ]
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Never, never, never believe any war will be smooth and easy, or that anyone who embarks on the strange voyage can measure the tides and hurricanes he will encounter. The statesman who yields to war fever must realize that once the signal is given, he is no longer the master of policy but the slave of unforeseeable and uncontrollable events. -- Sir Winston Churchill
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July 4th, 2002, 08:34 AM
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Friedrich, I'm sure you're right for that part of the battlefield ( north-west of Prokhorovka ).
But my little river crossing happened well south west of Prokhorovka.
Clue - the Division is a Very Well-Known One !
Keep going - it's in one of those books somewhere !
[ 04 July 2002, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
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July 4th, 2002, 09:55 AM
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G'day
My guess
II/2. LSSAH at Luchki??
Popski
I haven't got a good map of the area so just guessing.
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July 4th, 2002, 10:22 AM
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Sorry, Popski - that's not it.
Another clue. After the bridge at *** was taken by the *** Division, it was crossed by the 6th Panzer Regiment to attack the Soviet 71st Guards Rifle Division from the rear. . .
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July 4th, 2002, 11:48 AM
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One last clue . . .
The village was actually reached by the Armoured Reconnaissance Battalion of the *!@? Division under Major Watjen. This force was too weak to take the bridge alone. This was achieved on 9th July together with 6th Panzer Regiment and motor-cyclist riflemen of 3rd Panzer Divn.
The fighting was heavy and important for Operation Citadel. One book I have says : 'Now was the hour of decision'
Now for your decision, everyone. Which Division did that Armoured Recon belong to, and what was the village/bridge ???
( ps : one book I have says this happened on the 7th, another says 9th July. Both are by 'experts'. Must be the 'fog of war'! )
[ 04 July 2002, 05:50 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
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July 4th, 2002, 06:15 PM
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Martin, I get confussed every time more and more. Well, Major Watjen commanded 2. Infanterieregiment "Grossdeutschland 2" attached to Panzerdivision "Grossdeutschland". And 6. Panzeregiment belonged to 3. Panzerdivision, both division were supossely attached to XLVIII Panzerkorps, supossely in the northern flank of II SS Panzerkorps. All of them were facing 6th Guards Army in the river Psel area, there was XXII Guards Corps and 71st Guards Rifle Division. All is perfect until there. But NO rivers are South of Prokhorovka except for the Donets in the area of 2.SS Panzerdivision "Das Reich". So,the Psel must have been crossed in the area of 3.SS Panzerdivision "Totenkopf", which was the division along the river. Then what the hell was "Grossdeutschland and 3. Panzerdivision doing in the South between LSSAH and SSDR when they were supossed to be in the northern flank of SST?! Anyway, I could not find any map where a river named Pena or named whatever is southwest of Prokhorovka... I have not been able to sleep... I am not very happy right now.
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July 4th, 2002, 07:03 PM
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Friedrich, Friedrich - it's only a game !
You got the Division - it was of course 'Grossdeutschland' as you rightly say.
The River is the Pena, and the village was Verkhopenye . It was heavily fortified by the Russians because of the bridge there. There was a fierce tank and anti-tank action to take the crossing during which the bridge was damaged, but it was reapired in record time by Engineer Battalion 39 allowing 6th Panzer across.
This action is described ( with maps ! ) in both Carell ( 'Scorched Earth' ) and Jukes ( 'Kursk : Clash of Armour' ), although they both give different dates (!)
Come on, Friedrich - your question !
( I think I shall retire from this game - it's too stressful ) . . . 
[ 04 July 2002, 01:04 PM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]
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July 4th, 2002, 07:13 PM
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FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh, another time could not be any better to listen to Händel's Hallellujah!!!!!!!!!!!!
God, I feel good!!!!!!
Now, as I promised will revenge and will make you all suffer as I have suffered.
And thanks, Martin, I did not answer the question entirely, but I made a lot of research, didn't I?
Well, here it is:
Name the two men who put their division's flag on the Reichstag, which units they belonged to and the name of the unit commander.
I mean: Mr. K and Mr. J, from #@ batallion of officer X, %& regiment, division, army, army group...
ha ha! I am evil!
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July 4th, 2002, 07:48 PM
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