Baron, I read that too, but then someone else posted that thats not what it meant, I cant remember the conversation though, dang faulty memory chip [img]redface.gif[/img]

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Ain't no rocket scientists in the firehall

It is what it means, but it is an average. When I get back from holiday I will post up the documents I have relating to it. I cant remember the name of the best book on the topic, G.I at War, I think. Will sort it out when I get back to my little library.

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"Watch that Fu*ker, he'll 'ave someones eye out!" King Harold at Hastings 1066.

I still not knowing why the hell I posted this thread here... It should be Moshye-Nagan versus Mauser...

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

NOW he tells us !!

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

It's my topic and I do what I want with it! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

I was wondering why this was under Russia, lol. Anyway, my opinion is M-1 Garand wins hands down. Although I do love a nice bolt action....

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"May God have mercy upon my enemies because I won't."
~ General Patton

"O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not mine enemies triumph over me.."

"Born to fight, Trained to kill
Ready to die but never will..."

Well, it is time to fix this topic:

Moshye-Nagand versus Mauser. Any opinions? Forget about the bloody Garand!

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

My personal (prejudiced) opinion is that the K98 is superior to the Moisin-Nagant.

But I've checked through my smallarms 'library' and can't find a comparison - writers seem to describe the M-N but offer no performance thoughts.

I guess it's over to our 'shooting' friends in the US ..... ??

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Bye the way: Am I bloody spelling correctly the name of the rifle?!

Martin, why should we always wait for them?! We must do an European complot! [img]tongue.gif[/img]

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

As I've said before, Friedrich - in Britain you'd think it's an offence to even mention the word 'gun'.
The only guys allowed to use them are the drug-dealers and they prefer the AK47 so I can't ask them their preference between K98/Moisin-Nagant !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

I've been reading some more...
The Moisin was a sound design ( for 1891! ) and is reportedly quite pleasant to shoot, even today.

The issue is 'blurred' in WWII by weapons care, which in the German army was of very high quality. Quoting again from Captain Shore's 'With British Snipers To The Reich' : -

'Once or twice I took the opportunity of looking at the ( Moisin ) rifles used by the Russians; in nine cases out of ten I wouldn't have risked firing a single shot through their rifles. I never actually heard of a rifle barrel blowing, but I'm sure it must have happened. Throughout service in Europe I saw innumerable cases of the mis-use and total lack of care of firearms; but the prize for the worst maintenance would have to be... the Russians '.

This was why the PPSh41 was such a brilliant design under the circumstances ; it needed no maintenance at all !

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Martin

You've mentioned the one missing factor to me: maintenance. Going back to the Garand a second can anyone tell me it's complexity re; stripping and cleaning as compared to the 98K?

As for the Russian Moisin-Nagant as martin's quote illustrates it is as much about build quality as design. Today there are a lot of AK47's kicking around, but not all of them had quality control and they all behave differently. I get the impression in the panic-infused days of 1914-1918 and 1941 onwards build quality similarly slipped in the need to produce rifles. On the other hand I've seen in the Heeresgeschichtiches in Vienna some of the 1945 German rifles made in desperation and oh..boy you would not want to be near them when they went off...

Jumbo

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"Capital! We're nearly out of ammunition! Now we can get at them with the bayonet!" General Paddy Gough, 1st Sikh War

The Nagant had the advantage of not freezing solid and becoming inoperable in Russian winters.