What do you suggest that his flanks(Africa,Italy,Normandy),commanded the outcome on the east?? [img]smile.gif[/img]
It was really quite opposite,because Hitler sent vast majority of his army on Russia.Just imagine those 180 german divisions fighting in the west in 1941,1942...what would remain of British(or Americans) in Africa or anywhere else..
Few examples:Germans were doing well in Africa so long as their supplies were undisturbed(Italy-Libia route).Now on their way was Malta which was decisive in this matter.The 20th air corp of Wermacht based on Sicily complitly neutralased Malta as british naval and air base,but was then withrawn on the eastern front.This made little difference in the east but was crucial for Africa corp as British started to disable supply routes to Libia.This shows how great and important battles in Russia were,when Germans practically sacrificed Africa for a minor help in Russia.

When Allies pushed from the west after embarking in Normandy,German high command confronted them with half as many divisions fighting in the east.

80 percent of all german losses were inflicted in the east(some 5000 000 man),paid with more than twice as many Soviet soldiers and even more civillians.
So it is in my opinion pointless to even compare eastern and western fronts..

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'The commissars explained tankers that tank is burning 5-6 hours and to leave is a crime...'
From memoirs 'Guard Tank Army'

Who was massing for an attack?Soviets?Rediculous!
Stalin and therefore all of soviet army and(to a great stage) industry were COMPLETLY unprepared for the war..I belive there is no point to even elaborate this.. I hope?

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'The commissars explained tankers that tank is burning 5-6 hours and to leave is a crime...'
From memoirs 'Guard Tank Army'

Sorry Zhadov, I meant defeating the Brits prior to embarking on Barbarrosa.

I agree with Andy W on this one. I have found no evidence which I would consider reliable that backs up the theory that Russia was planning an attack in 42-3.
Starlin didn`t trust Hitler and was building up his forces, but I find no evidence that he intented to attack Germany. I feel he had too much respect for the German army to consider it.

As for winning WW2.
To all intents and purpose, he had already won it. All he had to do was maintain the U-Boat war on the British, and even if it didn`t bring the British to their knees, it would have worn them down enough for them to seek a negotiated peace.

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if in doubt....Panic!!!!

Stalin might not have wanted to attack Germany with the pre-emptive strike but Zukow would have, I think...

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Yep. As I said numerous times, a "pre-emptive" strike was considered (and actually would have been a good idea), but no "preventive" strike.

Again a more contemporary example of the difference betteen "pre-emptive" and "preventive":

If Saddam HAD decided to to spray NYC with nerve gas, and the U.S. nukes Bagdad to prevent this...this would be a "pre-emptive" strike. If Saddam has the nerve gas and WILL decide to spray it over NYC more sooner than later in the future, an "preventive" onslaught of the U.S.A. would be a good idea. If Saddam has nerve gas, which he THEORETICALLY COULD spray over NYC (or not), an attack on Iraq is an act of aggression.

And, no, please, don't drag this into a "Current history"-topic...it's just an example. We can replace Saddam with neighbors living left or right of you. You're simply not allowed to shoot down your right neighbor with your .38 Special because he's a criminal and you suspect that he has a gun, too; nor can you shoot your neighbor to the left because he has this nice well you want and you suspect that he is buying a .22 in the near future.

Cheers,

[ 09. December 2002, 05:13 PM: Message edited by: AndyW ]

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

In the first days of warfare in Russia German pilots claimed an unbelievable amount of shot-downs – for instance on 22 June Luftflotte 2 claimed shooting down 210 enemy aircraft in the air and destruction to further 528 on the ground. Generally on the first day the Luftwaffe’s score was 322 Russian aircraft shot down and a further 1489 destroyed on the ground – 1811 aircraft altogether! The next day the destruction to further 775 machines of Soviet Air Force mainly on the ground was claimed.

On 30 June the Messerschmitts Bf109F of JG 51 were perfectly directed on a great formation of Russian bombers flying without a fighters cover near Minsk. During a huge air fight Mölders’ pilots claimed shooting down as many as 114 (??) enemy aircraft, and one of these shot-downs apeared to be JG51’s thousandth victory. That was only 20 shot-downs less than was the claim of this unit for the whole September 1940 in the Battle of England! Mölders himself shot down five Tupolevs SB-2 raising his score to 82 victories. In such a way he came to a level with a German ace of WW I Manfred von Richthofen, and for that Hitler awarded him with Swords to the Knight’s Cross with Oak Leaves.

On the morning of 15 July 1941 Oberstleutnant Mölders divided tasks between his staff, and before noon he took off for a routine patrol flight. To the south of Orsha he saw five fighters Polikarpow I-16, which he attacked with his wingman. After a quick attack from the sun side the shot I-16 caught fire and went in a spin to the ground. The remaining Russian fighters dispersed in a blink. Mölders flied around a little receiving congratulations from his colleagues, who on the airffield radio heard his claim of the ‘’hundredth’’ and the wingman’s confirmation. On his way back he met a lone bomber DB-3, which he immediately attacked and shot down. In this way he gained his 100th and 101st victory as the first pilot in the world. At the Stary Bychov airfield great enthusiasm reigned: all pilots and mechanics gathered in the take-off area. When the JG 51’s leader’s Messerschmitt landed, champagne and other drink bottles shot, and Mölders was carried out of his cockpit on the people’s hands. They celebrated till the break of dawn.Adolf Hitler granted him with Diamonds to the Knight’s Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords as the first Wehrmacht soldier.
On 19 July he left the leadership of JG 51 at the hands of the so-far-leader of IV/JG 51, Major Friedrich Beckh, and took the office of Inspektor der Jägdflieger.
Not totally confirmed information has it that Mölders still took part in combat missions on the eastern front and within two months he shot down about 30 more Russian machines. However, that was not noted anywhere as he was forbidden by Göring himself to participate in missions.
His radio nickname ‘Bussard’ was known on both sides of the front

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/molders/molders.htm

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Kai :

The Luftwaffe had complete control of the air at this time and had the resources during the first month plus of excellent recon. The figures you give I can only assume included all totals from all fighter and bomber gruppen taking part, this including Dive bombing/strafing Stuka units in the ground attack roles....

E

Until ( If ) I find different calculations I would consider these the totals of the first days by Luftwaffe...

In some book there was a mention that the Red Army pilots did some couple of thousand or more flight hours during the first 24 hours but I find that quite amusing more or less...With what planes exactly??

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