I think that SS Division "Das Reich" was the best ss division as far as its combat record goes what do you think?

William P.

__________________
Gott mit Uns!
Und
Mien Ehre heißt Treue!

"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less chary of the latter than of the former. Space we can recouver, lost time never."
-Napoleon

"We cannot change politics; we must do our duty silently.
-General Werner Von Fritsch

"Those 16 year old assholes commanded their Regiments in Big shining Mercedes cars as though they were Corps Commanders."
-Erwin Rommel on the Hitler Youth

I would love to agree with you there!

But I am not sure of Das Reichs record versus LSSAH's record. Either f the two would qualify in my opinion.

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"If your gonna buy the angel s**t, you might as well go for the zombie package as well."
-George Carlin

I'll have to check out their combat record but compaired to the other 30 or so ss divisions it was most probably the best. It was definately one of the most decorated if not the most with 69 knits crosses awarded total. according to http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/ss-2.htm

william p.

__________________
Gott mit Uns!
Und
Mien Ehre heißt Treue!

"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less chary of the latter than of the former. Space we can recouver, lost time never."
-Napoleon

"We cannot change politics; we must do our duty silently.
-General Werner Von Fritsch

"Those 16 year old assholes commanded their Regiments in Big shining Mercedes cars as though they were Corps Commanders."
-Erwin Rommel on the Hitler Youth

Well, You are right, 2.SS Panzerdivision "Das Reich" got 69 RKs while the 1.SS Panzerdivision "Leibstandarte SS Adolf Hitler" got 'only' 58...

But as a non-liker of the WSS and a WSS ignorant I would stay out of this discussion. [img]smile.gif[/img]

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

thank you for your reply. whay are you against the wss I would think that as far as reputation goes that the units that ran the camps were far more tarnished than any of the combat units. And to say (just for conversation's sake) the 3rd ss division toten kopf didn't have a fabulus combat record either. They were composed mostly of deathcamp guards with little or no combat expiriance. So just being a death camp guard didn't make you a bad assed combat man. That also goes to show that the camp guards weren't as tough as one might think. Just a bunch of minions killing of so called "untermenchen"

What do you think?

William P.

__________________
Gott mit Uns!
Und
Mien Ehre heißt Treue!

"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less chary of the latter than of the former. Space we can recouver, lost time never."
-Napoleon

"We cannot change politics; we must do our duty silently.
-General Werner Von Fritsch

"Those 16 year old assholes commanded their Regiments in Big shining Mercedes cars as though they were Corps Commanders."
-Erwin Rommel on the Hitler Youth

Didn't the SS Division Das Reich fought in Sicily, or was that SS Leibenstandarte Adolf Hitler???

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Albert, it was the Leibstandarte. I don't know if the Das Reich was transferred too.

No, not because of that. I don't like the Waffen SS because it was an ungrateful sign from the nazis to the German Army and its ancient tradition of honour. If you read the diaries of many seniro Army officers (Rommel included) you will realise that they didn't like the SS at all. Why did they, who were not soldiers (according to them) received more attention and better equipment than the regular Army units? It meant that the Army would be very stick into politics, thing that was hated by the conservative Prussian generals. It was the eye of the NSDAP inside the Army and the generals didn't like this at all. By example, the Navy was lucky because it was entirely out of politics. And the Luftwaffe doesn't count, because the Luftwaffe had no militar tradition and it was work of the NSDAP.

My point is: what would you think if you are serving in a regular infantry division in the Eastern front. You are starving, have almost no ammunition, your friends are dying by the hundreds and you have to walk many kilometres per day. Next to you is an SS division and they are getting Tiger tanks, Panzerfausts, food, ammunition, cigarettes and whores! And what do you get? Loafs of old and filthy bread!!! This is described by my grandfather, former infantry and Panzer Oberstleutnant in the Army.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Hi Will--I think you should post this question as a Poll, then i'd have fun participating

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

I'd have to disagree. The 3rd SS were camp guards in the 30s, but Eicke tuned them into a fighting unit, aganst the wishes of may of the top brass, before the war even began. And although they did not fight in the front line in Poland, they did in France. Prior to Poland, neither the LSSAH or Das Reich had had any combat experiance. The LSSAH being nothing but Guards.

And while the 1. and 2. Divs were pulled out of Russia to prepare for the Allied invasion, and had time to rest and refit, the 3.SS remained in the East from the 22nd June 41 to the end of the war.

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'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT

My mistake as you see thouse are easy to make with the ss units because of how complicated their formation and construction was. the credo of the german engenier "make nothing simple if it works just as well complicated"

check out my poll everyone it's on what ss divison was the best.

__________________
Gott mit Uns!
Und
Mien Ehre heißt Treue!

"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less chary of the latter than of the former. Space we can recouver, lost time never."
-Napoleon

"We cannot change politics; we must do our duty silently.
-General Werner Von Fritsch

"Those 16 year old assholes commanded their Regiments in Big shining Mercedes cars as though they were Corps Commanders."
-Erwin Rommel on the Hitler Youth

Of course, the 3.SS did continue to have links wih the death camps throughout the war. And i believ that it is this link hat forever links the name of the entire Wafferen SS with the Holocaust.

__________________
'England confides that every man will do his duty' Nelson
'I'm a Norfolk man, and glory in being so' Nelson

Proud to be a GRUNT

why do you just beleave man? Of course that's the reason the SS will for ever be linked to the holicost. but it could have been any ss unit not just death's head that could have brought about that effect.

__________________
Gott mit Uns!
Und
Mien Ehre heißt Treue!

"Strategy is the art of making use of time and space. I am less chary of the latter than of the former. Space we can recouver, lost time never."
-Napoleon

"We cannot change politics; we must do our duty silently.
-General Werner Von Fritsch

"Those 16 year old assholes commanded their Regiments in Big shining Mercedes cars as though they were Corps Commanders."
-Erwin Rommel on the Hitler Youth

I am not sure if the Das Reich would be considered the best though it may have had the top scoring Panzer Regiment in all of the W-SS divisions. When the 1st SS was withdrawn to Italy for a short stay Das Reich fought some of it's most intense actions while on the Mius front against overwhelming Soviet attacks of T-34's and infantry.

E

Agreed Erich,

this is not so simple in the end. From several books I have noticed this kinda order in battle value though I am myself Leibstabdarte fan ( if you can say that ):

1. Wiking=das Reich
2. LAH
3. HJ
4. Totenkopf

The Hitlerjugend goes ahead only as they held the allied troops for one month in front of Caen and were totally annihilated during that operation. That is unheard of I think in any armies ever: 18-year-olds showing how to fight...

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Well I think that the work done by the Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler was the best between the other Waffen SS units in this front. We must remember that even in Stalingrad the biggest amount of Knight crosses were to the Waffen SS LSAH. Its name says it all: Waffen SS First Division leibstandarte Adolf Hitler...the first.
anyway we know that the das Reich Division and the Totenkopf made a great work too. But the first is the first...

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Alejandro Espinosa
Berlin bleibt deutsch!

I agree with Das Reich. Followed closely by Wiking & LAH.