From what I do know there were two 44th infantry divisions serving in Stalingrad with the 6th Armee. One was the Austrian Hoch und Deutschmeister and the other just the 44th infantry division. Were both of these divisions Austrian? Were there in fact two 44th divisions in Stalingrad.

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Cheers,
Daniel

I confirm that the 44th infantry division, Hoch- und Deutschmeister, consisted of Austrians only, but I don't know of a second 44th infantry division?!

Among 6,000 prisoners who returned from Stalingrad, about 1/4 was Austrian, which indicates that there were more than the 44th infantry division. This is all I got so far.

[ 13. December 2003, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: KnightMove ]

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If someone tries to remove the speck in your right eye, will you turn to him the other also?

I know on Skalman's site he lists two 44th divisions one appears to be the Hoch und Deutschmeister and another Austrian 44th Division. Perhaps it is the recreation of the Hoch after Stalingrad.

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Cheers,
Daniel

URL?

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If someone tries to remove the speck in your right eye, will you turn to him the other also?

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Cheers,
Daniel

*sigh* It would not be a problem to post the specific link, would it?

This one however does not mention a second 44th:
http://www.skalman.nu/third-reich/he...rie-div-44.htm

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If someone tries to remove the speck in your right eye, will you turn to him the other also?

I think you will find it does. However I found the discrepency. Skalman lists the Hoch und Deutchmeister in the named divisions section I think and then lists a 44th Infantry Division in the Infantry Divisions section. All of this is contained in the Third Reich Factbook. Skalman has two 44th entries, one for the division prior to Stalingrad, and the other for its reformation after Stalingrad. Both are in fact the same unit.

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Cheers,
Daniel

Yep.

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"Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!"
(President Merkin Muffley in "Dr. Strangelove")

There was ONLY one 44th infantry division. The Austrian one that fought and was destroyed at Stalingrad and the one who was reformed later in the war.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

The 44th Infantry Division. Destroyed at Stalingrad and reformed using all of the original survivors as it's cadre.

It's Kommandeur was Generalleutnant Dr. Friedrich Franek who was aged 53 at the time.

This division was made up of the following units:

Grenadier Regiments 131, 132 abd 134, Artillery Rgmt 96, Pioneer Btn 80, Panzer Jager Abt 46, AufklAbt 44, Signals Abt 64.

It's auxillery Nr is 44.

It's home station was in Vienna which is in Wehrkries XVII.

This division was made up mostly of Austrian personnel. During the Polish Campaign they sustained heavy casualties. In France they saw little fighting but advanced great distances.

Their morale was not as high as the moral in other predominately Austrian units. In Russia, they were stationed in the Southern Front from the beginning of the campaign.

They were vertually destroyed at Stalingrad and were re-formed in France in April 1943. In June 1943, they were honored with the title Reichsgrenadier Division "Hoch und Deutschmeister." In August 1943, it was transferred to North Italy and in October 1943, it was transferred to Slovenia.

BTW; Otto had around 44 photos of this Division in his possession. [img]smile.gif[/img]

Another thing, getting any shoulderboard insignia from this Divsion is VERY very difficult in the least. A single 44th I.D. Shoulderboard can easily set you back almost $400.00.

[ 15. December 2003, 02:30 PM: Message edited by: C.Evans ]

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

Has anyone read Anthony Beevor's Stalingrad book? He mentions the 44th by the name Hoch und Deutchmeister as early as Stalingrad. So this has all confused me now. I know that there are not two 44th divisions. However which is Hoch und Deutchmeister, before Stalingrad, after Stalingrad, or both?

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Cheers,
Daniel

Well, I think Mr. Beevor made a little mistake there, since the Austrian division annihilated at Stalingrad was not named like that. It received its name when it was reformed.

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"War is less costly than servitude, the choice is always between Verdun and Dachau." - Jean Dutourd, French veteran of both world wars

"A mon fils: depuis que tes yeux sont fermes les miens n’ont cessé de pleurir." - Mère française, Verdun

Friedrich is right on this one, even though there are other sources repeating this mistake, e. g.:

http://www.aeiou.at/aeiou.encyclop.d/d367058.htm

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If someone tries to remove the speck in your right eye, will you turn to him the other also?

There is a nice uniform for sale at Kai Winkler's ite of this division with the famous shoulderboards Carl mentioned. Indeed expensive, the uniform (jacket only) goes for 1450 euro.

I thought Hoch und Deutschmeister was the name of an old Austrian unit of the empirial army.

Hi Volkbert, glad to see you back here. Yep--they were an old Austrian unit though I don't know anything about that particular unit.

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Lost are only those, who abandon themselves) Hans-Ulrich Rudel.

If Beevor and other sources repeated the mistake, how do you know it is a mistake?

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Cheers,
Daniel