OK, I don't have 'rouble' signs on my keyboard....

As I read more about the airwar on the Eastern Front, I keep coming across those 'I never knew THAT...' things.

Like this one - Soviet airmen, under Stalin's Order No 0299 of 19th August 1941, were paid 1,000 roubles for every enemy aircraft shot down in air-to-air combat.

I don't know how much a thousand roubles bought you in the 1940's, but this system was almost unique among WWII air forces.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Sounds like a capitalistic approach to increasing communist efficiency. I never heard about it during any other reading about WWII but it was very common to hear about classifications of US soldiers(K-9) or sometimes even individual persons (Carlos Hathcock aka White Feather). The bounties then were usually in a certain number of months wages. (Carlos was up to a full year in his second tour).

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

The Flying Tigers got bonuses for shooting down planes. It has been awhile since I read up on them but I think it was $500 a plane, which was a whole lot at the end of the depression era.

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

That's right ; it was $500.00 per aircraft. But the Tigers were a volunteer group - in effect, almost mercenaries - as the US was non-belligerent at the time.

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

According to http://eh.net/hmit/ppowerusd/ $500 would have been worth about $6628 in 2003 (last year of calculator). So, round up for convenience and add a couple years of inflation, $7000. Not bad.

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Martin, you use the phrase, almost mercenaries, for the Flying Tigers. Was their status different than the Americans that were flying on a volunteer basis for the RAF?

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

funny I have never in all my years of studying WW 2 air ops, heard the FY received payment for downing the enemy. Can you cite the source(s) please ? Ken Jurnstedt before he died never said boo about this and also ace of the FY from my home town, Johnny Hampshire received a big fat check of $ 0.00 for his kills while over China

v/r E ~

Bigiceman - I guess not, so long as the Chinese pilots were on the same money. AFAIK, Americans flying with the RAF were on normal RAF pay, which was certainly not generous ( less, in fact, then they'd have got in the USAAF ) ....

Erich, the source is Hugh Morgan in Osprey's 'Soviet Aces Of World War 2' pp 10/11. The order was People's Commissariat For Defence Order N.0299 signed by Stalin.

[ 27. August 2005, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

geez don't get me started on the Osprey works Martin.... [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]

what I want and if there is a misunderstanding is that Ta made a comment about the FY getting paid to pop Jap. pilots. this is in the Soviet aces book ?

Sorry - Erich - my bad [img]redface.gif[/img] . I'm only referring to the WW2 Soviet Air Force.....

( I don't have any books about the Pacific War, so I can only cite the following website for the question of Flying Tigers / mercenearies etc : -

http://www.warbirdforum.com/faq.htm

Scroll down to the second faq ).

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"Stand by to pull me out of the seat if I get hit" - Guy Gibson

Erich may be right on this. As I said it has been awhile since I read up on this and it said, "promise of $500 for every Japanese plane they shot down." I guess most of us have been down the 'promise' road before.

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Work Harder ! Millions on welfare are depending on you.

I found this statement on the American Volunteer Groups official website.

http://www.flyingtigersavg.com/

SALARIES OUTLINED

" . . . Their offer was a one-year contract with CAMCO (Central Aircraft Manufacturing Company) to 'manufacture, repair and operate aircraft at salaries ranging from $250 to $750 a month. Traveling expenses, 30 days leave with pay, quarters, and $30 additional for rations were specified. They would be subject to summary dismissal by written notice for insubordination, habitual use of drugs or alcohol, illness not incurred in line of duty, malingering, and revealing confidential information. Before the end of the A.V.G., I had to dismiss at least one man for every cause except revealing confidential information. A system of fines was initiated for minor offences.

"There was not mention in the contract of a $500-bonus for every Japanese plane destroyed. Volunteers were told simply that there was a rumor that the Chinese government would pay $500 for each confirmed Jap plane. They could take the rumor for what it was worth. It turned out to be worth exactly $500 per plane. Although initially the five-hundred-dollar-bonus was paid for confirmed planes destroyed in air combat only, the bonus was soon applied to planes destroyed on the ground - if they could be confirmed."*

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Bill Murray
Why do we press harder on the remote control when we know the batteries are getting weak?

The P-40B was used by the Flying Tigers in China and there were some in Hawaii during the Japanese attack there. Other than the Flying Tigers, does anyone know of any squadrons that were using the P-40B during the war. The Flying Tiger stories indicated that they were a fair match for the Japanese as long as the flight of planes worked together. A lone P-40 was zero bait, but two P-40s could take on superior numbers. They were an older plane, I know. Anybody have any information?

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Hello gentlemen,

This payment for airkills was common practice in the Spanish Civil War also

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Hondje Kees for President !!

Could you elaborate a little Jack?

Was that on all sides of the conflict and countries?

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

Hello Iceman,

In my flying-club ( 69.Giap), my persona is Ivan Trofimovich Yeremenko. I decided to check him out and found out he was a Russian Squadron leader ( 16 victories ) in the Spanish Civil War.His Squadron flew Polikarpov I-153 Chaika's and Polikarpov I-16 Ishak's, 2 of the most beautiful aeroplanes ever built. After scoring 2 victories he got a limousine from the president of the Spanish Republic, but for every victory hes was paid a sum ( not a fortune !) by the Polikarpov Aircraft Factories. This company had something at stake as the Soviet Airforce ( VVS ) was reequipping and victories are good advertising!
I can't tell you if this practise was widespread or not, unfortunately.
I don't think the Nationalist side ( Franco's forces ) were rewarded this way, not to my knowledge anyway.

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Hondje Kees for President !!

Thanks Jack. I learn so much every day I come here.

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL

one of the biggest problems was that the FT did fly on lone searches for Jap. a/c and trying to recover a confirmed over the rugged mtn's of China was at most an impossibility. the Chinese were not keen to go hunting for the US just to take note of downed enemy craft. Remember the resistance at first of the Doolitle raiders

The US Army Air Corps had 6 fighter groups fly the P-40 that I know of. They were the 23rd, 33rd, 57th, 79th, 324th, and 325th. Other nations also used the P-40. It was Austrilia's main fighter of WWII. The RAF had 16 squadrons of P-40s. The New Zealand Royal Airfoce had 7 squadrons of P-40s. The Soviet Union used the P-40 for close air support and as a fighter on the Eastern Front.

Thanks Col. Hessler. I am suprised that with that many squadrons in service there were not more pictures, I guess the newer fighters were sexier.

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PEOPLE SLEEP PEACEABLY IN THEIR BEDS AT NIGHT ONLY BECAUSE ROUGH MEN STAND READY TO DO VIOLENCE ON THEIR BEHALF. GEORGE ORWELL