Yes it is good, but fails to show the number of soviets whom were fed to the meat grinder to achieve these victories, as well as never mentions which army had led during a full brunt attack, but as he was sent once the fighting became static, and won through numerically huge advantages in armour and men...

Had Stalin taken Zhukov's original plan intended at Stalingrad that another full army, 3 armoured brigades, 400 howitzers all backed by an aviation army had been granted, this might have switched the outcome of Stalingrad, as the success or reclaiming the city in a battle head on would have petered out, and ended his carreer. Stalin disapproved and demanded another solution, for he was ill wanting to loose his precious Stavka reserves and commit them. The second solution by Vasilevsky and Zhukov to Stalin led to the attack on the Northern flank.
Paulus has often been blamed for not disobeying Hitler later, once the scale of the disaster was clear, but his real failure as a commander was his failure to prepare to face the threat. It was his own army which was threatened. All he needed to do was to withdraw most of his tanks from the wasteful battle in the city to prepare a strong mechanized force ready to react rapidly. Supply and Ammunition dumps should have been reorganized to ensure their vehicles were kept ready to move at short notice. This comparatively small degree of preparation-and disobedience to the fuehers headquarters-would have left the sixth army in a position to defend itself effectively at the crucial moment.

Please do tell us exactly instances of which armies you mean in this statement so we know what you are talking about.

Except that the southern flank was attacked as well, pincers normally have two arms. North pincer was made up of the Southwest (Vatutin) and Don (Rokossovsky) fronts, south the Stalingrad (Eremenko) front.

You make it all look so simple, isn't it. Fortunately Paulus was selected for the post for his stupidity beyond measure, for sure.

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If Stalin was looking for any reason to get rid of Zhukov the summer 1942 losses would have been good enough and at the latest the failure of Operation Mars.

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September 12 1942 at Stalins order Zhukov was summons to the Kremlin, and made to explain what was wrong in Stalingrad..he concentrated on the fact that 3 understrengthed armies sent into combat had lacked artillery and tanks. Stalin demanded to know what was needed.as posted earlier Zhukov replied that another full army, 3 armoured brigades, 400 howitzers all backed by an aviation army....

Stalin said nothing. He picked up the map marked Stravka reserves and began to study it alone. Zhukov and Vasilevsky moved to a corner of the room. They murmured, discussing the problem. They agreed another solution would have to be found.

Stalin possed sharper hearing than they had realized. "and what,"he called across'does"another" solution mean?'

summons back the next day and asked by Stalin what they came up with is the Plan which is now known in History as the Battle of Stalingrad...

as for what army # or tank battalion Zhukov had intended or Stalin had, and most likely used on the Flanks 100+miles to north where the same as what Zhukov had asked is not privy to me in this book, nor might it be in any other, but the fact Zhukov did come up with the plan as first set out and later changed is a matter of record...

bf109 Emil

Interesting commentary on Stalingrad´s value....

The Stalingrad Front - The New York Review of Books

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Perhaps one way to stop the operation from surrounding Stalingrad November 1942 would have been to push the Red Army troops over Volga. However the Germans did not have the resources to do this.

Serafimovich and Kletskaya

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I agree with this after Richthofen Luftwaffe destroyed the city, little was left except the symbol. Maybe if the sixth army had pulled out, forged the Volga, either to the North or south of Stalingrad securing bridgeheads across the Volga and to continue. Surround the supplying army and railheads on the east bank being used to supply Chuikov within Stalingrad as well as food/supplies, maybe, and perhaps only then would a starved and beleaguered city have succumbed to surrender or put up nil for resistance. The logistics of poor roads, lack of railheads across the Volga, and what would have been the target of numerous Soviet planes upon bridges constructed would have spelled doom to German troops upon the East bank to continue with the ferocity scene previously by armored units upon the Soviet landscape. Even the nightmare of having to feed 25,000 horses used by the sixth army, if an advance continued, after a scorched earth policy meant having to transport how many bales of hay for how far??? each day??? just to pull artillery guns, and Hitler pulling back horses for this reason left the ability to try and pull guns out to meet the advances soon to encircle them none available.

bf109 Emil

Correct, a symbol for both countries. I wonder if this tragedy would have happened if the place was still called Wolgograd then? This could be a nice "what if"

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I have read this also, I don't think this was requested to push the Germans from Stalingrad I think it was what Zhukov wanted to hold the city. Could I be wrong? Stalin did not approve because of what was needed for op Uranus. Chuikov was kept with just barely enough to hold on in lieu of what Zhukov requested.

That's correct, the idea was to have Stalingrad just survivable enough so that the bait was more and more palatable to the German trout.

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Yup.

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The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

I heard it described as dangling a shiny bauble in front of their faces until everything is just the right, then grab them by the nose and kick them in both ass cheeks real hard.

A British friend I used to wargame with came up with that one.

Well, it didn't quite start up like that, but that's what it became. Thanks to V.I.Chuikov and all of his men of 62nd Army who bought such valuable time even if unaware of their role in the general scheme of things.

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Even if the pockets of resistance on the west bank of the Volga had indeed fell, supplies would not have been able a landing ground...okay...so what....either way, does anyone think the wehrmacht would have risked building a bridge, allowing their armour to cross in order to form a break-out onto the east bank of the volga...this had better be a darn good bridge, cause if it falls or is targeted by every soviet plane....Tiger and Panthers can swim back, nor can any swim across to provide aid...and a few puny boats that might have been captured if not already sunk first would hardly made a dent in the needed supplies to carry eastwards...even if the flank of the southern army intent on securing oil for the Caucasus(sp?) the majority of the 6th army would have headed south leaving only a token force to protect the banks of the Volga....i think the crossing to the north was done a hundred miles north of Stalingrad...the distance for panzer
to meet this threat would have been even further away had the bulk of the army headed south into the rich oil fields...

well to ahve an army attack with troops given a handfull of bullets, and the Stavka shooting any whom retreated was not indeed considered a meat-grinder...what is one...to assume or call this anything other is crazy...what would the American mothers and fathers think if troops landing at Normandy had to share rifles???? but this was okay for Russian citizens, and not be called a blatant waste of lives paints a picture of Hitlers view of a lesser race and acceptable military practises...did the wehrmacht attack with un-armed troops???

Emil, do you believe in the Bigfoot too?

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so this never happened??Stavka never shot retreating troops???must be a mistake by numerous history books/articuls....maybe authors...what's with the bigfoot comment..nice class insulting fellow members...Za Rodinu....very nice...Do you believe in flying saucers Za Rodinu....

bigfoot, what a nice comment...class, pure class

Reports of troops having to share rifles are as frequent as the famous one-off reports of tank-hunting mine-dogs. These belong more to folklore than to military history. If some people prefer to value folklore I have no quarrel with that provided it's recognized as folklore.

As for barrier troops, their use is well known. Same as flying courts by the Gemans post late 1944, they are even depicted in the recent movie "Downfall".

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In Von Luck book achtung panzer he reveals how a dog being petted shows explosives and how they where taught to crawl under armoured cars in looking for food..i take these as being so rather then folklore, unless someone can prove the details in Colonel Von Luck book Achtung Panzer to be made up or false....he said this was most unfortunate as the troops being home-sick would have valued the company of a pet or dog...instead, any strays had to be shot