Russian Equipment Used by Germans

MastahCheef117 · #1 (**permalink**) September 5th, 2009, 09:15 PM

Well, I have several things to say. Both of these are being quoted from encyclopedias.

1. In the book "The Encyclopedia of Weapons: From World War II to the Present Day", on the page of the PPSh-41 Russian Submachine Gun, it says near the end:

Quote:

German Service
Under such circumstances the PPSh-41 (known to its users as the 'Pah-Pah-Shah') received virtually no maintenance or even any cleaning. Under Eastern Front conditions it soon became apparent that the best way to keep the weapon going under summer dust or winter ice conditions was to keep it completely dry and free from any sort of oil, otherwise its action clogged or froze.
So many PPSh-41 submachine guns were produced that the type became a virtual standard weapon for the German army as well as the Red Army, the Germans even going to the extent of recalibring some of their captured hoard to their own 9-mm (0.354-in) Parabellum cartridge: this process required the replacement of the Soviet barrel and a housing able to accept the magazine of the MP 40. Unaltered weapons in German service received the official inventory designation Maschinepistole 717(r), but the designation of recalibred weapons remains unknown. Partisan forces operating behind German lines found the PPSh-41 an ideal weapon for their purposes, and after the war the type was used by virtually every nation that came within the Soviet sphere of influence. It still turns up in the hands of 'freedom fighters' all over the world.

The above quote obviously points out that occasionally German troops would take these Soviet weapons and use it against them in combat.

2. In the "Encyclopedia of Tanks & Armored Fighting Vehicles: From WOrld War I to the Present Day", it mentions use of the T-34/85 in use by different countries of the time and countries today (but not directly the German army):

Quote:

In time, the 76.2-mm gun was replaced by an 85-mm (3.34-in) gun using the turret taken from the KV-85 heavy tank. This variant became the T-34/85, which remains in service today in some parts of the world. T-34/85s remain in service in Afghanistan, where they have been used by the Taliban militia. They are also used by China which deploys over 500; Croatia, Congo and Mali which deploy 20 each; and Angola and Laos which deploy between 10 and 15 each. Special assault gun versions using the 85-mm gun and later the 100-mm (3.94-in) or 122-mm (4.8-in) artillery pieces were developed and flamethrowing, tractor, engineer and mine-clearfing versions also rolled off the production lines.

Quoting from these two encyclopedias, does anyone know of any other Soviet equipment that was used by the Germans throughout the Eastern Front war?

olegbabich · #2 (**permalink**) September 6th, 2009, 04:42 AM

Germans used all small arms, trucks, tow tractors, light, medium and heavy tanks. Many types of aircraft were also captured intact.

Vermacht relied heavily on captured equipment throughout the war, and not only of Russian origin

I think it was not captured material that German Army got the most use out of Russia, but the Russians who willingly went to work or serve in the German Army (Hilfswillige).

In the German Army a vast number of support personal came from defectors in Soviet military or people who enlisted from occupied territories.

I got these numbers:
Spring 1942- about 200,000
July 1943- about 600,000
July 1944- about 800,000

There were a lot of people who did not like Stalin or who were looking to improve their situation by serving the Nazi cause.

MastahCheef117 · #3 (**permalink**) September 6th, 2009, 04:48 AM

Really? Both men were completely crazy, but I personally believe Hitler was just a tiny bit more crazy...

Triple C · #4 (**permalink**) September 7th, 2009, 06:28 AM

The Germans used prodigous quanitities of Russian hardware. They took the Russian 76.2mm dual-role AT/HE artillery and rechambered it to fire PaK 40 ammunition; captured large stocks of T-34-76s; used Russian machine pistols; there is almost no doubt that they also used captured 122mm artillery, 82mm and 120mm motar. The 120mm was so good that the Germans copied it and made an improved model. And often overlooked but as important as any other equipment, they used captured Russian punji horse wagons. =D

Hufflepuff · #5 (**permalink**) September 9th, 2009, 03:25 PM

It was not uncommon at all for the Germans to use Mosin-Nagant Rifles and especially PPSh-1941 submachine guns from dead or captured Russians. I've seen plenty of photographs and heard dozens of accounts of that.

aglooka · #6 (**permalink**) September 12th, 2009, 12:00 AM

Also much used and prized were the 76mm and 85 mm AA guns, first on the homefront (as AA guns) later as front guns (AA + AT), both in their original calibers and rebored to 88mm.

Aglooka

aglooka · #7 (**permalink**) September 12th, 2009, 12:17 AM

Another gun that was much used by the Germans was the 76.2 mm infantery gun.
It was slightly modified for german use by modifying its aiming devices to german standards and ammo was specially made.

Most of the captured 76.2, 122mm and 152mm guns ware pressed into service at one time or another. Late in the war there were infantery divisions with a complete Russian artillery park.

Aglooka

aglooka · #8 (**permalink**) September 12th, 2009, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MastahCheef117

Well, I have several things to say. Both of these are being quoted from encyclopedias.

2. In the "Encyclopedia of Tanks & Armored Fighting Vehicles: From WOrld War I to the Present Day", it mentions use of the T-34/85 in use by different countries of the time and countries today (but not directly the German army):

T34/76 (the early war model) were certainly captured and used in numbers. Mostly tough without turrets as heavy prime movers and so, because any T34 at the front was a target

(they were used at the front tough and sometimes even modified with German equipment). There was a special maintenance depot for T34 in the German army. But you have to remember that most (especially the early models) T34 were captured because their transmission was broken and thus unusable.

The T34/85 (late war version) came at a time that the war was going so bad for the Germans that few ended up in German hands.

greetings,

Aglooka

TiredOldSoldier · #9 (**permalink**) September 12th, 2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aglooka

T34/76 (the early war model) were certainly captured and used in numbers. Mostly tough without turrets as heavy prime movers and so, because any T34 at the front was a target

(they were used at the front tough and sometimes even modified with German equipment). There was a special maintenance depot for T34 in the German army. But you have to remember that most (especially the early models) T34 were captured because their transmission was broken and thus unusable.

The T34/85 (late war version) came at a time that the war was going so bad for the Germans that few ended up in German hands.

greetings,

Aglooka

Das Reich SS division had a number of T-34 in 1943, there is some photografic evidence of mixed T-34 and Pz IV long units from this unit.
AFAIK the SS tried to reactivate part the Kharkow production plant to refit T-34s.

KV-1 and at least one KV-2 were also used, there are pics of some the Germans extensively modified. But this looks more a Cuckoo like epispde (Cuckoo was a much photografed Panther used by a British unit) than widespread.

The lights (BT, T-26, T-60, T-70) were usually used as tractors (often minus turrets) until they completely broke down or for rear area anti-partisan duties.

IMO the most significant German use of former soviet equipment were the 76mm guns (some even made it to the Afrika Korps!!) and 120mm mortars.

Sloniksp · #10 (**permalink**) September 14th, 2009, 07:50 PM

Mastahcheef117,

Your own article states:"So many PPSh-41 submachine guns were produced that the type became a virtual standard weapon for the German army"

This is a far cry from "occasional" use.

The Germans did however, benefit from Russian weaponry, particularly in the early stages of Barbarossa. So many supply depots and soldiers were captured that the Germans had almost as much Russian weaponry than their own!

The quality of these weapons compared to the German ones would of course differ.

Hufflepuff · #11 (**permalink**) September 14th, 2009, 09:52 PM

If I recall correctly, the DP-28 was also well-liked by the Germans, I've seen footage of Volkssturm recruits using them in Berlin.

marc780 · #12 (**permalink**) October 7th, 2009, 05:23 PM

in "Citadel: the battle of Kursk" by robin Cross, the author details one incident, towards the final days of the battle. An SS unit over ran a Russian position and found about several dozen working T-34's. They used them during a night attack against their former owners, and destroyed a number of russian T-34s before they even realized they were being attacked by the enemy.

brndirt1 · #13 (**permalink**) October 7th, 2009, 05:57 PM

One more thing to keep in mind as to captured PPsH-41s, they used the Soviet P1 pistol cartridge 7.62x25mm Soviet auto (interchangeable with 7.63 or "30" Mauser). The 7.63 mm Mauser cartridge was the basis for the 7.62x25mm round adopted by the USSR.

Although the case dimensions of the two cartridges are nearly identical, the 7.62 mm Tokarev has a stronger powder charge for use in the PPsH and other weapons, and is not recommended for use in the C96 "broomhandle" pistols.

The reverse is true however, since the 7.63 Mauser could easily be used in SMG chambered for the 7.62 Soviet P1 pistol cartridge. Mauser would have no problem supplying the German troops with rounds for any captured PPsH SMGs, so no adaptation to 9mm would be necessary really.