This article made me throw up in my mouth just a bit. Somethings should just never be suggested. Sacrilege!!

Diary entry may offer proof that baseball came from England - MLB - SI.com

Well we've invented some of the best things known to man, woman or beast.

Inventing the USA was one of finest endeavours though.

cheers,

__________________

I cannot argue with that and, truth be told, I am a bit of an Anglophile. Indeed, my Mum was born and grew up on the British Channel Islands. That said, if baseball is not American, I just don't know anything anymore!

Too bad he didnt describe the game of "base ball" in his entry. Well, if the English played it, we "refined" it! Cheers!

__________________
__________________________________________

“The first lesson is that you can't lose a war if you have command of the air,
and you can't win a war if you haven't.” - General Jimmy Doolittle

Do the British even play the game. I don't recall ever seeing it played when I was there in the 80's.

__________________

American by birth, TEXAN by the grace of GOD!

There are a few amateur clubs in the major cities, and US baseball is shown on one of the smaller TV channels after midnight, but it is very much a minority sport.

__________________
if in doubt....Panic!!!!

Mildly puzzled and suspect there's no real 'discovery' here... as I always thought Stoolball the progenitor of all these stick & ball games.
It predates 1755 by a long way (and was certainly still widespread in the 17th century.) :
National Stoolball Association - play the game of stoolball
Stool ball: a medieval baseball game
The game was associated with Easter too, so I wonder if that's what Bray refers to in his diary?
Seems more likely, particularly as he was apparently playing 'mixed'.

It's not a bad game if played with the batter standing on the 'stool'... once you've established the "No edged weapons except by prior agreement" rule.

Cheers,
Adam.

__________________
It's only the Internet.

30 seconds of googling reveals an 11 years older reference than Bray's to 'base ball' from 1744, possibly referring to early Rounders:
National Rounders Association:- Home
A gentrified and refined form of stoolball, which is certainly one step closer to the American game.

__________________
It's only the Internet.

I wouldn't worry about it mate, there's plenty of things which have become US icons which originated elsewhere, and plenty of UK icons which came from further afield too. Curry is a good example here, most popular dish nationally, the only local development being the sauce for a chicken tikka masala and nasty things like cheese naan.

I think it's a good and healthy sign, nations being open to new things and all. The time to worry is should you find yourself in a society which is the same as it ever was, or Belgium.

I think the most popular form is rounders, typically played in junior schools.
Personally prefer cricket of course, surprised it hasn't taken off there, although I have heard of some matches and even read a match report (Eng Expats v RoW in California) featuring "Cheech" Marin who's a fearless batsman.

cheers,

__________________

In Jane Austen's novel Northanger Abbey, in the first chapter the young heroine is described as preferring "cricket, baseball, riding on horseback and running about the country to books".

__________________
if in doubt....Panic!!!!

Bit of history here.

Steve W.

__________________

The Glider Pilot Regiment 1942 - 1945
Assault Glider Trust
The Last Drop:Operation Varsity 24-25 March 1945

There's no way that baseball, a game that involves a lot of standing around doing nothing, could have been invented in England...wait, let me think about that some more.

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

You are so right. Baseball must have originated in Washington DC . . . .

well, finally some people start to recognize this game being as thriling as cricket

Regards
Kruska

__________________

The world is grey - not black and white

My favorite play...

__________________
The war against Russia will be such that it cannot be conducted in a knightly fashion. This struggle is one of ideologies and racial differences and will have to be conducted with unprecedented, unmerciful and unrelenting harshness. -Adolf Hitler

Well, actually it is quite enjoyable to play, I just hate to watch it. I played from the 2nd grade up until I finished HS and loved every minute of it. The only games I like to watch are those that involve 5, 6 or 7 years olds.

__________________
Best Regards,
JW

You're both missing the point of cricket as spectator sport. Imagine a game which starts at around ten, finishes around five, lasts for five days and has a nearby bar for the entirity of it.

__________________

makes sense to me, we steal all your TV shows too!

__________________

Scott

Oh please, similar games were played all over Europe. Both before Rounders was played in Briton, or Town Ball was played in America. None had too much in common with BASEBALL as played worldwide today. They were all games involving "bases, balls, and striking sticks". But from that point on they are all weird as hell.

And let us not forget about "Town Ball", a game which is a cousin of baseball, and both were evolving at that time in Ameria. In this game a ball is pitched; batters try to hit it with an ax handle or some other piece of wood; runs are scored. But it ain't baseball.

To get runners out, you throw the ball at them. And it's one out per inning, not three. Instead of bases there are poles, there was no such thing as a foul ball, for instance, so every little foul tip was occasion for much scurrying.

A referee, as the official was then called, sits in a chair in the middle of the infield, watching for rule violations and issuing fines to players who commit them.

Here is a link to the 1854 "Town Ball" rules, but as the name implies the rules for each "town" could easily vary:

Town Ball Rules of 1854

And here is another even more interesting link to the game as adopted on the North American landmass, including Canada:

Description and Rules of Townball

And here is one to the 11th Century!:

SABR UK: Early bat and ball games

which describes "stick, base, and ball" games. While they are all "stick/bat, base, and ball" games, and are the forms from which American Baseball evolved, they are certainly NOT BASEBALL as it is played and has been played since 1870 in America, and actually worldwide.

In these games the players run clockwise, must hit the runner with the ball to put him out after a "hit" (thrown or touching), no foul balls, cannot leave the "base, fort, sanctuary" until another "hit" is had. Ya take your hand off the post and you are "out".

Doesn’t sound much like BASEBALL does it?

__________________
Happy Trails,
Clint.