Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

3 Messerschmitts fly again

Discussion in 'WWII Today' started by jagdpanther44, Oct 10, 2018 at 3:26 PM.

  1. jagdpanther44

    jagdpanther44 Battlefield wanderer

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2007
    Messages:
    1,844
    Likes Received:
    535
    Location:
    Cheshire, England
    Actually it's two Messerscmitts and one Spanish Buchon; nonetheless, it's still great to see them all in flight.

     
  2. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    401
    Location:
    Arizona U.S.A
    Spectacular! Now they just need to do that with FW-190's! There are 3 in the world that fly.........
     
  3. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,221
    Likes Received:
    2,028
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Great video. There's something about WW2 planes. They have much more personality than today's birds.
     
  4. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2002
    Messages:
    13,392
    Likes Received:
    1,324
    Location:
    London, England.
    Fascinating stuff. This is the Hangar 10 collection in Germany. Very interesting to see the contrast between the old-style canopy of Bf109G-6 'Black 8' and the later 'Erla-Haube' of Bf109G-10 'Black 2'.

    Also of course the unique 2-seat trainer 'yellow 27' which in the clip has a Merlin ( correct for a Buchon ) but now I believe this has been replaced by a DB605. The clip is a good opportunity to hear the difference between the Mercedes 'blue note' and the very different Merlin sound.
     
  5. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    The Merlin engine and mount were severely damaged in a ground accident back in 2012/13, and the decision was made to convert the Buchon into a G-12. The Buchon was given a DB605 when she was converted.
     
  6. Otto

    Otto No More Half Measures Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2000
    Messages:
    9,032
    Likes Received:
    1,331
    Location:
    DFW, Texas
    Always nice to see videos of WWII equipment, and this is favorite style of video as there is no sound track to cover up the sound of the engines.

    Martin, I did enjoy the canopy shots also, some nice details in this clip.

    I'm continually astounded with the level of knowledge we have on the site. Not many sites would have several people that see a video of the WWII aircraft and immediately know all three powerplants & crash history for those aircraft. Astounding.
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Flugwerk's FW-190 reproduction aircraft more than double that number...
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  8. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2010
    Messages:
    5,396
    Likes Received:
    713
    [​IMG]

    Australia has one...
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  9. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    I presume the Buchon airframe was designed originally for a Merlin. Converting it to an inverted V-12 MB 605 is no easy feat but glad they did. I would love to see a sectional drawing of an ME 109 with the 30MM mounted through the propeller hub. It would appear the crankshaft would be in line with the barrel of the cannon so the propeller hum must be hollow and some of the gearing around that hollow . Give the torque od a 27 liter V-12 how it stayed inline is a mystery to me. The Bell P-39 has it's 37 MM but it's V is upright, making more room for the cannon. It just does not make spatial sense to aging minded me :)
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  10. Carronade

    Carronade Ace

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    2,192
    Likes Received:
    332
    The P-39 had the engine behind the cockpit, with a drive shaft extending forward to a gearbox which drove the propeller. This made room for the big 37mm gun which fired through the hollow propeller shaft.
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  11. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Yep. Flugwerk produced many parts to get it into the air, as well as the Russian Powerplant(essentially a BMW 801 copy).
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018 at 12:49 PM
    JJWilson likes this.
  12. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    I had forgotten the P-39's rear engine, that makes sense. any thoughts on the 20MM Me-109? I also can understand a hollow hub but not where the gun was mounted. It obviously is parallel to the crank and must be above then the inverted V banks of the engine would be wider and lower than seems feasible. Clearly, it works just seems cramped and difficult. Did it carry a 60 round drum? And if so where did it reside? 20mm seems good for attacking bombers and 30 caliber bit to light so maybe in ariel combat between fighters, the 50 caliber was a good choice in WW2.
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  13. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    401
    Location:
    Arizona U.S.A
    Was a similar design used for Soviet aircraft such as the Lagg-3, and the Yakolev fighters? I've never thought about this before actually....
     
  14. Mussolini

    Mussolini Gaming Guru

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2000
    Messages:
    5,659
    Likes Received:
    536
    Location:
    Festung Colorado
    The only thing I miss about Orlando is hearing the P-51 Mustangs buzz the office building I worked in back then! It was always awesome to see them flying around and the noise they made was unmistakable!
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  15. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    401
    Location:
    Arizona U.S.A
    P-51's are a rarity where I live, but I see a B-17, B-25, T-6 Texans, PT-17 Stearmans, and the occasional T-28 Trojan quite frequently.
     
  16. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    569
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    JJ, the Soviets did get some P-39's from us and apparently liked them for ground attack fighters. They were not up to air to air combat with the ME 109's. The LaGG-3 was not based on the P-39, it has a "belly" that looks like it might have been but it was a conventional V-12 layout, a Klimov, mounted upright in front of the pilot but it was mostly laminate wood construction. Well armed but a bit heavy and Russian pilots joked they were flying coffins. The Yak 3 and 9 had a conventional design, not unlike a Spitfire and also had a Klimov V 12 up front. There may be a P-39 based design somewhere but I have not heard of one but I am no authority !!

    Thank you for the "thank"

    Gaines
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  17. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    401
    Location:
    Arizona U.S.A
    I completely agree with what you're saying Gaines, there was no other aircraft, outside of the P-63 and XP-75 that were based off the P-39. I didn't properly explain what I meant by similar design. I was talking about the Cannon placement in the nose, and it's location relative to the engine. I'm assuming the Soviets took a similar approach to the nose mounted cannon as the Germans, and later the U.S did.
     
  18. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,328
    Likes Received:
    1,483
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Well, the P-63 was a direct descendant of the P-39, while the P-75 Eagle was only similar to the P-39 in general layout(in fact, the XP-75 used the landing gear of a Corsair, the tail of a Dauntless, and the wing panels of a P-51).

    The approaches were different, the Germans and the Soviets had the cannon firing through the engine, while the US went with a mid-fuselage mounted engine that used a drive shaft to connect the engine to the propeller.
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  19. harolds

    harolds Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,314
    Likes Received:
    162
    I believe the ME's cannon receiver and breech were actually in the cockpit between the pilots legs. o_O
     
    JJWilson likes this.
  20. JJWilson

    JJWilson Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2017
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    401
    Location:
    Arizona U.S.A
    Thanks Takao, I didn't know that the XP-75 was based off of so many aircraft! Learned something new again!! Would the vibration of the cannon be harmful to the engine over time?
     

Share This Page