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A Quick U-Boat question

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by sonofecthelion, Mar 14, 2005.

  1. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

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    What was the first German U-Boat in WWII to be made without a deck gun of any description (perhaps only with an AA gun)? Also when would it have been made?
     
  2. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    Did they make any? Surprisingly many ships were sunk with deck guns as the torps could be unreliable and obviously difficult to aim underwater

    FNG
     
  3. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Plus, by using the deck gun to sink a ship, the Germans made their torpedo supply last longer, always a strong consideration to a submarine on a war patrol.
     
  4. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    U-1
     
  5. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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  6. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    The late-war subs (XXI class?) had no deck gun. Basically staying on the surface to attack ships was no longer an option by 1944 anyway - convoys, radar-equipped escorts & ASW planes, etc etc.
     
  7. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    Should we consider just uboats commissioned during wartime or uboats used during wartime?
     
  8. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

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    Thanks Ricky, that seems to be what I was after.

    Yes, any ship comissioned during the war, which of course the XXIs were.
     
  9. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    U-62, of type IIC, was comissioned 21 December, 1939. And without deck gun.
    Also, types IID, VIIF and XIV "milkcows" were comissioned during wartime and prior to XXI's.
     
  10. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    Milkcows were not offensive subs, they were resupply subs.

    FNG
     
  11. sonofecthelion

    sonofecthelion New Member

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    Did 'milkcows' have AA capabilities?
     
  12. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    Yes they did. Not sure about what kind of AA-guns they carry.
     
  13. tom!

    tom! recruit

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    Hi.

    The first german XIV submarines carried a 2 cm C30 and a 3,7 cm SK C30
    for AA defence.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    This was found insufficient and so in 1943 the armament was increased to two 20 mm C38 twin AA-guns and a 3,7 cm M42 AA-gun.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    None of the 10 subs built survived, most of them were destroyed by aircraft.

    Yours

    tom! :wink:
     
  14. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    I think German subs did go through a stage or upping the AA armament and basically trying to slug it out on the surface with attacking aircraft. Given that subs by their nature can't afford to get damaged and the lost of underwater performance from the extra drag the idea wasn't a success.
     
  15. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    The Germans definately had a deliberate policy of doing this at one stage. As Ebar said - not the best idea ever... :roll:
     
  16. canambridge

    canambridge Member

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    This was a good case of learnig the wrong lesson. Based on a very small number of isolated cases, Doenitz felt that his U-boats could fight it out on the surface against aircraft.
     
  17. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    People were hunting around for a solution. Planes hadn't been that big a problem at the start of the war but improvements in weapons and airborne radar made them an increasing threat. I believe the thinking was that a plan probably only has bombs for one attack run and a sub is a very small target. Hopefully the merry zip and zing of 20mm AA would at least put off the pilot. As has been mentioned the increased AA was a failure. Ultimately the snorkel was the way to go.
     
  18. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    It must be said, however, that a number of Allied planes did get caught flat-footed by the new flak armament and suffered heavier losses for a short time before new tactics emerged to deal with the problem.
     

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