Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

A simple question for Opana Point and Takeo

Discussion in 'Prelude to War & Poland 1939' started by Dracula, Jul 13, 2019.

  1. Dracula

    Dracula Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    13
    Did FDR want to take the US into WW2, yes or no? Simple enough?
     
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,976
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    It's never that simple...

    Did FDR take us into war when the USS Panay was sunk...No.

    Did FDR take us into war when the USS Reuben James was sunk...No.

    Did FDR take us into war when the USS Greer was severely damaged...No.

    Did FDR take us into war when France fell...No.

    Over 100 US Merchant Marine sailors we killed and 14 US flagged ships were sunk or damaged between January and November 1941, did FDR take us to war then...No.
     
  3. Dracula

    Dracula Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    13
    in your personal opinion, did FDR want in, yes or no?
     
  4. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    485
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    The question is sophomoric.

    It was not a question of whether or not FDR wanted the US involved in either a war in the Pacific or a war in Europe, it was the certainty that sooner or later, and probably sooner, the the US would be involved in either or both.

    You completely ignore the US Constitution which requires a vote by Congress to declare war. In the case of a declaration of war with the Japanese Empire, that declaration was an acknowledgement of the actual conditions. In the case of the declaration against Germany, it came after the Germans declared war on the US. Absent the action by the Germans, a declaration of war upon them might still have been a hard sell.

    A US president, regardless of what has been done since WW2, under the US Constitution has not the authority to unilaterally go to war.

    Probably time for someone to crack some real history books and not conspiracy voodoo history.
     
    LRusso216, von Poop and George Patton like this.
  5. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2010
    Messages:
    8,073
    Likes Received:
    1,050
    The issue is much more complex, though I echo R Leonard on this. FDR's motivation sat somewhere between a belief the US had to enter the conflict to insure a positive outcome for western democracy's and a belief that no matter what the US did, it could not avoid becoming embroiled in the war.
     
    George Patton likes this.
  6. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    2,255
    Likes Received:
    632
    Location:
    Auburn, Alabama, US
    What is wrong with you two? Cannot you answer a simplistic question in one word or less?
     
  7. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,825
    Likes Received:
    1,734
    How about "You don't know enough about the topic to ask an intelligent question."?
     
    gtblackwell likes this.
  8. Dracula

    Dracula Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    13
    Did FDR take us into war when the USS Panay was sunk...No.
    The Panay attack occurred in 1937. A year before
    It was not a question of whether or not FDR wanted the US involved in either a war in the Pacific or a war in Europe, it was the certainty that sooner or later,and probably sooner, the the US would be involved in either or both.
    You are exactly right,perhaps a better description would be not wanted but deemed necessary. FDR wasn't blood thirsty and let's see how many we can kill or let's grab some new territory kind of guy. As you pointed out, he was a realist, who knew that sooner or later and probably sooner, the the US would be involved in either or both. His opinion was that Hitler,Italy, and Japan had to be stopped. Realistically, the only way to stop them, was to get the US and its difference making industrial and manpower capacity into the conflict, as soon as possible.

    FDR couldn't go to Congress and ask for a war declaration, they would have said no. He had to get Hitler to declare war on the US? He poked and prodded Hitler with German declaration of war against the United States - Wikipedia
    Destroyers for Bases Agreement, Lend-Lease, the Atlantic Charter, the hand-over of military control of Iceland from the United Kingdom to the United States, the extension of the Pan-American Security Zone, US destroyers escorting American supply vessels bound for the UK were already engaged in a de facto war with German U-Boats.[ Hitler wouldn't bite so he poked the Japanese economic bear, into a corner, until either the bear came out swinging or was publically humiliated, by being forced to withdraw from China. Option 2 was never an option, with Hideki Tojo. When Japan initiated attacks, on December 7th, and declared war, against the US on December 8th,and after the US declared war against Japan, also on December 8th, Hitler was not required, under the terms of the Tripartite Pact, to declare war on the US since Japan had initiated hostilities against the US. Hitler couldn't help himself and, for whatever reason, declared war against the US, on December 11th, 1941.

    FDR had gotten the action he deemed necessary.
     
    ColHessler likes this.
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,976
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    No.
     
    gtblackwell likes this.
  10. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,976
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    No.
     
  11. R Leonard

    R Leonard Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2003
    Messages:
    786
    Likes Received:
    485
    Location:
    The Old Dominion
    Likewise, for the sake of brevity, no.
     
  12. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,842
    Likes Received:
    671
    Have you stopped beating your wife? Simple enough?
     
    gtblackwell and R Leonard like this.
  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,825
    Likes Received:
    1,734
    The Atlantic Conference made FDR's intentions clear. Some people have read about it.
     
  14. Takao

    Takao Ace

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2010
    Messages:
    7,976
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Mmmm, yes.

    Churchill: When are you coming in?
    FDR: I'll get back to you on that. Next question?
    Churchill: When are you coming in?
    FDR: I said 'I'll get back to you on that. Third question?
    Churchill: When are you coming in?
    FDR: Why do you keep asking this one question?
    Churchill: Because it's the only one that matters.

    Or so I've heard.
     
  15. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,825
    Likes Received:
    1,734
    Well, the Germany First Policy was established. FDR went "short of war" in the Atlantic. The US and British military agreed to share information and collaborate on plans wherever possible. FDR was always behind public opinion, and public opinion was that we would have to fight tne Axis sooner or later. They were right.
     
  16. LRusso216

    LRusso216 Graybeard Staff Member Patron  

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2009
    Messages:
    13,621
    Likes Received:
    2,192
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    From what I've read FDR did not advocate for war but he understood that war might be necessary. He realized that the world situation kept changing and conditions were such that the US needed to be aware of that. The reality of the world situation in the 30s was a volatile one and FDR was aware of that as well.
     
  17. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2008
    Messages:
    10,825
    Likes Received:
    1,734
    FDR and WSC wanted to defeat the Nazis. The Japanese were an unwanted complication. Absurdists tout the backdoor to war conspiracy theory, but no serious student of the material believes in that one.
     
  18. Dracula

    Dracula Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    13
    FDR and WSC want to defeat the Nazi's, your words, but WSC and the Commonwelth are getting their ass kicked by the Japanese. There is no way in hell, that WSC can take both Hitler and Tojo even, if he could get unlimited and uninterrupted Lend-lease from FDR.

    With a Congress not willing to declare war, How does FDR get in?
     
  19. RichTO90

    RichTO90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,842
    Likes Received:
    671
    Methinks you need to stop with the alternate history and try to learn some history first. The Japanese attacked the British at the same time as they attacked the Americans. There was no process of them kicking Commonwealth ass before that.

    There is no way in hell the Japanese can attack the British and not take on the Americans at the same time. See how that works?

    He doesn't if the Japanese or the Germans do not give a casus belli. They did. FDR got in with the authorization of Congress.
     
  20. Dracula

    Dracula Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2014
    Messages:
    86
    Likes Received:
    13
    I'm like the rest of you. Apparently, none of us are married because we're here, wasting time,and chirping at each other, on a WW2 forum.
     

Share This Page