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a translation................please

Discussion in 'Atlantic Naval Conflict' started by Erich, Jun 28, 2011.

  1. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    Greetings all from a very wet South Orygun

    am doing some research on a German Kriegsmarine vessel the M-4215 "Marie Elisa" and her crew. would someone be so kind as to do a translation from the French for me ........... ?

    29-08-1944 M-4215 (Ex-Marie Elisa) (+1944) wreck [67y ago]dragueur de mines auxiliaire allemand de 141tx . Saisi en 1941 par les Allemands et utilisé comme (SR) dragueur auxiliaire. Sabordé aux Sables d´Olonne. L´épave est renflouée en septembre 1945 et réparée. ; Minensuchboot
    see wreck

    many thanks

    E ~
     
  2. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Maybe this is right:

    29-08-1944 M-4215 (Ex-Marie Elisa) (1944) wreck [67y ago] German auxiliary minesweeper of 141tx. 1941 seized by the Germans and used as a (SR) auxiliary minesweeper. Scuttled Sables d'Olonne. The wreck was refloated and repaired in September 1945.
     
  3. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    29-08-1944 M-4215 (Ex-Marie Elisa) (+1944) wreck [67y ago] german auxilliary minesweeper of 141t. Taken in 1941 by the Germans and used as (SR) auxilliary minesweeper. Scuttled in location Sables d´Olonne. The wreck was raised in september 1945 and repaired.
     
  4. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Hehe, i was faster!!;-) Sorry TOS, but this was a must! All the best.
     
  5. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    Hi, looks like we got the same result, does SR stand for SPERRBRECHTER. Looking for more info on her found SPERRBRECHTER 70 (Maria S. Muller) but no Marie Elisa yet.
     
  6. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    double post IE9 had a fit.
     
  7. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Hmmm, as far as i know the Sperrbrecher was the KSB for "Kriegssperrbrecher". Have to look for it.
     
  8. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    Good work .. switching PC and bowser ... I'm really getting annoyed with the old one but new PC is not 100% operational yet. Did a quick scann of a list of Sperrbrecher 1 to 212 and relative fates but found no match.
     
  9. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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  10. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    hey guys, should let you chaps continue the discovery work ............ the sister Boot M 4214 was sunk a day earlier by Allied air attack. am trying to find why she, the M-4215 was scuttled on 29th of August 44. As you continue searching let me say that a Sperr is a much larger craft. The captured French vessel is much smaller in size.

    will return shortly with more . . . .
     
  11. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    sniper1946 likes this.
  12. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    yes Ulrich look at my first post and the wreck in blue .................. :cool:

    but much bigger than a projected patrol boot that we normally think of. sunk/crippled August 29, 1944 but why ?

    hint : The Marie Elisa was part of the 42. Minensuch Flottille and was considered to be a KM Hilfminensucher
     
  13. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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    Ooops, have to clean my glasses! Hmm didn´t found anything, but maybe it has found a mine...?
     
  14. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    think off the coast of France in August 44, not a very good time for the KM Ulrich, in fact the 42. Flottille was disbanded in September of 44 due to terrible losses in men/materials. you may be correct a possible aerial mine, but yes I would like confirmation
     
  15. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    just some perspective from Chronik Seekrieg :

    [TABLE="width: 80%"]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 83%"]
    42. Minensuchflottille
    Aufgestellt im Juli 1940. Aufgelöst nach der Invasion am 15. September 1944
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 17%"][​IMG][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Operationsgebiet:​
    [TABLE="width: 450"]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    1940-44
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Atlantikküste Frankreichs (Les Sables d´Olonne)
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Flottillenchefs:​
    [TABLE="width: 450"]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    Kptlt. Hölzerkopf
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    07.40 – 11.41
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    Kptlt. Bauer (Josef)
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    11.41 – 08.42
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    KKpt. de Laporte
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    08.42 – 05.44
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    KKpt. Lehmann (Paul)
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    05.44 – 09.44
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    Einheiten:
    [TABLE="width: 450"]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4200
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Windjammer x R 197
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4201
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Christ. Mahlmann = O 163
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4202
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Joselle = LR 2523
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4203
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Palombe = LR 1975
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4204
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Marie Therese = LR 2509
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4205
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Goulfar II = L 2502
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4206
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Picorre = LR 2424
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4207
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Les Baleines = LR 2048
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4208
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Ker-Yar-Vor = L 2588
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4209
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Courdannes
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4211
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Irena Raphael = O 345
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4212
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Marie Frans = O 122
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4213
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    André Marcel = O 217
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4214
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Jean Marthe = B 1684
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4215
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Marie Elisa = O 250
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4216
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Charles Letzer = B 1683
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4217
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Frans Suzanne = O 306
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4218
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Jonge Frans = O 300
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4219
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Henri
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4221
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Maurice Fey
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4222
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Abeille 19
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4223
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Cherbourgois V
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4224
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Abeille 16
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4225
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Tatihou
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4226
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Angèle Cambeleyre = Arc 8906 ; Palmier
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 81"]
    M 4227
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 353"]
    Cornelis
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    [TABLE="width: 450"]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4230
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Langfuhr x Korab III
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4231
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Magermo = BA 1011
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4232
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Rio du Jour = BA 951
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4233
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Ginette II = BA 907
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4234
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Eskualduna II = BA 842
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4235
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Ahalduguna = BA 965
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4236
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Alba Eder = BA 962
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4237
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Bixinto = BA 969
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4238
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Goeland = BA 1021
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4241
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Abeille 16 ; Jean Jacques = B 947
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4242
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Odet II = L 929
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4243
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    La Grêle = ARc 5495
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4245
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Frisia IV
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD]
    M 4246
    [/TD]
    [TD]
    Frisia VIII
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]
    Zur Flottille gehörten unter der Kennung M 4250-55 Kriegsfischkutter.
     
  16. TiredOldSoldier

    TiredOldSoldier Ace

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    Found the site with the original French text too, but if she was raised in 1945 why is the wreck still listed?
    BTW my book was the venarable German surface vessels volume 2 a 1960 vintage MacDonald pubblication that somehow survived in still readable shape in my library.
    No info about why she was scuttled yet. My book reports only M4202, M4205, M4207, M4208, M4212, M4214, M4241 and M4242 as war losses from the 4201-4255 group. They were possibly called KFK at one time. From the pics of M1105, M1202 and M1205 they probably started life as small coastal steamers.

    Looking at Roskill on August 27 he reports the loss of the British minesweepers Britomart and Hussar and damage to Salamander from a "blue on blue" incident with Typhoon fighter bombers near Cape d'Antifer, Le Havre was abandoned by German warships in the perion 26-30 August with the loss of nine "small ships", possibly related to our search but probably not as Les Sables d'Olonne is in the Bordeaux area..
     
  17. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    have found she was listed as a Auxiliary dredger................hmmmmmmm
     
  18. Gebirgsjaeger

    Gebirgsjaeger Ace

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  19. Erich

    Erich Alte Hase

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    yes Ulrich have been in touch with Andrew about the two bro's, good eyes on you, note the distance and I believe it to be 75km off shore ?
     
  20. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    Good works chaps, some more details Tx is the abreviation for tonneaux which is a nautic measure (one tonneau = one ton).

    Also the Sables d'Olonnes is on the Atlantic coast. If we are talking about August 1944, this is about the time when this area was liberated and vessels that could not reach the La Palisse or La Rochelle Festungs south or the Lorient one west were scuttled by their crews. They could also be escaping attempts from Brest and trying to take supplies to the surviving pockets.
     

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