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A Very Short History of Sniping in WWII

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by harolds, Feb 13, 2014.

  1. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Then you would think you would be able to find a single shred of corroborating evidence to support the matter...But, no one who has looked has been able to find any. Not in German archives, and not in Soviet/Russian archives.
     
  2. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    Hoffman's diary is also suspect and if there was a Hoffman, the diary may have been altered (as published) to serve the Soviets.
     
  3. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    One sniper or two? Whatever. Nice Hollywood movie where the Russians have time for quick romance as well. Not a lot. Weisz vs Law. I hate it when it is a war movie and
    there is the "must" romance.. War is war not kissing and fuc**** Blääh.
    And Stalingrad was not Zhukov's main target, it was Army Group Center. Stalingrad was sorta "mistake.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2022
  4. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    There was sex in the trenches and some female snipers were sent home when they got pregnant. Some officers demanded that women snipers provide sex and if they refused, berated them while she stood at attention or worse, raped them. One woman sniper was about to be raped when a company commander and a Komsomol instructor chanced by and drove off the SMERSH rapist. Another woman got a grenade and threaten to throw it into the stove if the officer didn't leave (he left), Then there's the case of the petite woman sniper who was being dragged away screaming by a lieutenant. The men of the company were outraged and the officer effectively used his face to stop their punches. He released her and luckily for the men he didn't shoot them or press charges for assaulting an officer.

    BTW Kai-Petri - You're right about war movies. The movie was entertaining but entertainment should never be mistaken for education. Summarize a movie (or an opera in three words or less and you have a pretty good idea of what happened. For Stalingrad, it would be Russian sniper wins.)
     
  5. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    One of the things I love about the M2 Browning HMG is that the bullets were supersonic. You could hear a "splat" and look around without going to ground. Second round goes here.
     
  6. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    I remember when they (M-2) were only $2.5k and tommy guns were $1k. I had the money but being in Californiastan couldn't buy either. Nowadays they'd be worth much, much more. But I can't afford to chute either b/c of the price of boolits. It's like walking down a street and throwing silver dimes out as you walk.
     
  7. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Also some basic rules Häyhä put in his book 20 yeaars ago:

    To accurately measure the distance of the bullet´s flight is important. If the distance is 400 ms and you thought it was 300 ms, the mistake in bullet´s falling is about one meter. For the distance of 400 ms the falling of the bullet is about 2 meters altogether.Also you might have to consider the wind, and possibly a running target, a running man advances 4 meters/second.For the wind: 1 m /s side wind changes the bullet 13 centimeters to either side

    You can find more from the thread "Vasili Zaitsev is dead.."...Cheers KPH
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  8. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    @Kai-Petri - "Häyhä put in his book 20." What book?
     
  9. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Member

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    Sex has always been the great payoff for soldiers in all wars. The Soviet women soldiers used to attach themselves to officers as "campaign wives". But I imagine rape and exploitation was probably more prevalent than Soviet authorities would like to admit. Wherever the Red Army went, rape followed.

    When crossing into Germany proper, the Red Army got a carte blanche to rape and exploit with an official blind eye being turned.

    One wonders what the figures are of Red Army soldiers and officers convicted of such and either imprisoned or summarily executed for their crimes.

    Likely that particular statistic will never be known for certain
     
  10. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    It seems to be in the net in English " the White death ".
     
  11. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    Not to be nitpicky but most rifle caliber ammunition is supersonic not just .50 cal BMG. In fact, most machinegun rounds are travelling at close to Mach 3; .50 cal BMG,.30-06 (M-1917/M-1919), 7.62x51 NATO (M-60/M-240/MG-3), 12.7x108 (DShk), 7.62x54 R (PK/PKM), 5.56x45 NATO (M-249), 7.92 x 57 Mauser (MG-34/42).
     
  12. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Member

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    That's a good idea. Very Monty Pythonesque to have a "summarise" anything. The Python sketch was called the "Summarise Proust Competition", where each contestant had a MAXIMUM of 15 seconds to summarise the entire master works of Marcel Proust in the entirety.

    In this vein, you have summarised "Enemy At The Gates" as "Russian sniper wins". Very good!

    Here's some more.....

    "Hell in the Pacific"- Lee Marvin gesticulating
    "Saving Private Ryan"- Americans are important
    "Patton- Lust For Glory"- Georgie the fruitcake
    "Hamburger Hill"- Airborne Quarter Pounder
    "MASH"- Doctors f**k nurses.
    "Von Ryan's Express"- Sinatra falls over.
    "Pearl Harbour"- Naval pants down
    "Memphis Belle"- Too much action
    "300"- Spartan gay marriage.
    "The Great Escape"- Too many Americans

    Anyone else want to add to that?
    Python ended their sketch with the following immortal words...
    " Well I don't think anyone here has successfully encapsulated Proust in his entirety...so I'm going to award the prize tonight to the girl with the biggest tits!( Yayyyyy!!!!!)
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2022
  13. OpanaPointer

    OpanaPointer I Point at Opana Staff Member Patron   WW2|ORG Editor

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    It's the combination of supersonic bullet and and the two ounces of jacketed lead, kinetic energy transfer at it's best.
     
  14. Bolshevik

    Bolshevik Member

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    Here's more...

    "The Green Berets"- Vietnam OK Corral
    "Battle of the Bulge"- Too many M-48s.
    "A Bridge Too Far"- Cavalry too late
    "Apocalypse Now"- Coppola drops acid.
    "Where Eagles Dare"- Alpinekorps in circles
    "Lion of the Desert"- Oliver Reed drunk
     
  15. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    The distance is the key. Uncle told me about wanting to see what happened with they sighted in the P47 .50's and said he crawled down in the trench below the target. Said he heard a " splat/sloop" sort of sound when the bullet hit the embankment. Rather disappointing really - then he heard the shot. That was at 300 yds. At longer ranges two or three seconds between rounds leaves little for the awareness factor.
     
  16. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    The one by Tapio Saarelainen? I have that.
     
  17. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    I had to laugh. You're right about The Great Escape. The Americans were absent but the escape king was an American who flew under RAF colours. He kept getting away; but he was always captured. One time he was in Gestapo Hands and they accused him of sabotage. He told them he was good at breaking out but horrible at getting away and to check their files on him and that would confirm it.

    "Is Paris Buring?" - Paris wasn't burnt.
    "The Longest Day" - Allies invade Normandy.
    "Up Periscope" - sub sink sinks
    "Das Boote" - Sub gets home.
     
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  18. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    No, by Petri Sarjanen but I don't think there's much use to buy another if you have one.
     
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  19. CAC

    CAC Ace of Spades

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    That’s right…it’s what makes up most of the ‘bang’ when fired…the bullet going super sonic before it’s even left the barrel. SF can use sub sonic bullets to make firing quiet…
    Sorry mate I’m sure you already know this stuff…

    The crack of a whip creates a bang, that’s the ends of the whip breaking the speed of sound…
     
  20. Riter

    Riter Active Member

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    No sense buying it until it's in English. Thank you good sir.

    BTW, the advent of smokeless propellant in metallic cartriges meant higher velocity and greater pressures than what blackpowder could attain. Smokeless propellant has been used since the late 1800s. While blackpowder can push bullets to supersonic speeds, it loses velocity faster (bigger bullet had a lot to do with that).
     

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