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Alt-history...what if singapore did not fall?

Discussion in 'World War 2' started by ray243, Jul 29, 2005.

  1. ray243

    ray243 New Member

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    There is many argument that if better managed,singapore may not fall...so what would happen if the base were still remainded under the british? would other colonies be able to withstand better?
     
  2. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    Would we have been able to supply the population and troops there as the surrounding areas were overrun?

    It may have become an ulcer in the pacific RN fleet draining time, ships and men as we continue to try and resupply the base which would be deep inside enemy control.

    FNG
     
  3. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Failure to take Singapore would have deprived the Japanese of an important base for their navy. Also it would have cramped Japanese moves west since they would have had to continue to commit troops to the assault.

    There is the potential for a besieged Singapore to be another Malta style drain on the RN but then Malta was very useful to the allied cause. As Singapore would have been.

    Had the troops defending Singapore known what awaited them I doubt the Japanese could have taken the place.
     
  4. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    Maybe true for the Brits and Aussies however most of the Indian troops defected to the Japanese side did they not?
     
  5. merlin phpbb3

    merlin phpbb3 New Member

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  6. Simonr1978

    Simonr1978 New Member

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    Re: aziz

    Elaborate please, for the novices amongst us.
     
  7. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    I have never heard of any story that indian troops defected to the Japs, don't forget that the Japs did try to invade India and were fought back in a series and hard fought battles. However there was the Indian National Army.

    But there where none German ss units with English and other nationalities as well. You should look up the British Free Corps who were a Waffen-SS unit along with the SS-Nordland.

    There were and still are rumours that the Aussies did not fight very well and gave up quickly causing all the problems and someone produced a book about this this year. However I don't know enough to be able to agree or dissagree with that comment or the book.

    FNG
     
  8. Grieg

    Grieg New Member

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    FNG wrote:

    One source amongst many:
    http://www.spearhead.com/0303-jb.html


    There is no doubt that many thousands...some sources say 20,000 and some as high as 45,000, of Indian troops defected to the Japanese.
     
  9. Che_Guevara

    Che_Guevara New Member

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    During WW2 ca. 6000 danish volunteers fight along the Waffen-SS.
    The 101. and 102. SS-Freiwilligenkompanie were completly spanish Soldiers.
    Indische Freiwilligenlegion der SS some Indians fight at the western front.
    Norwegisches SS Ski-Jäger-Bataillon.
    Legion Volontaire Française and "Französische SS-Freiwilligen-Sturmbrigade"

    And many units with soldiers from Serbia, Russia, Bulgaria etc.

    These are the numbers of Volunteers for the Waffen-SS:

    Niederlande: 55.000
    Ungarn: 50.000
    Belgien: 43.000
    Ukraine: 40.000
    Lettland: 32.000
    Frankreich: 20.000
    Italien: 19.000
    Dänemark: 6.000
    Norwegen: 6.000
    Schweden 2.000
    Finnland: 1.180
    Schweiz: 800
    Liechtenstein: 80
    Großbritannien: 75
    USA: 12, they fought in France 1940, Russia and Normandy 1944, in Band of Brothers you can see one of these volunteers.
    Japan: 10

    Sry I don´t know the english names of countries like Liechtenstein, Ukraine, Belgien.

    Regards,
    Che.
     
  10. PMN1

    PMN1 recruit

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    One of the interesting things about the whole sad Singapore story is Churchill saying he had no idea the guns couldn't fire inland - I suspect this is another case of Churchil making up history....

    When he was Chancellor 1924 - 1929 he had specifically studied the plans for and discussed with the Chiefs of Staff about the necessity of landward defence and when he became PM he would have seen all the notes and discussions about the defence of the base including the results of a 1937 report which was pretty close to what the Japanese actually did.....

    As it was, the idea of ringing the island with defensive forts that could hold out if the rest of Malaya was occupied is a bit riduculous, the base, on the northern tip of the isalnd and the reason for holding out would have been in the front line and water supplies were dependent on sources outside the city.

    If you get a chance then a good read is Corelli Barnett's 'Engage the Enemy More Closely' - it has a whole chapter on the Singapore talks and the loas sof the Prince of Wales and Repulse. In fact, the whole book itself is very good if you want a history of the RN in WW2 and some of the background to the state it was in.

    The whole idea of the base was for an eastern fleet but there simply were not enough ships for this and without the ships there was no need for the base. As it was we just gave the Japanese some fantastic base facilities (the dry dock capapble of holding ships up to 65,000 tons had just been finished). It might have been better to upgrade facilities in Australia which although further away from the main area of ops would have been a lot safer.

    As for the conduct of the troosp, the stories of the last few days doesn't exactly show them in a good light and the Autsralian 18th Division arrived just in time to march off the ships into captivity.
     

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