Authenticity of militaria

How do you tell real German militaria from the fakes? Any suggestions?

 

experience ... you research and learn, on the way you will get burned but you learn from it.

Conversing with other collectors aswell, and research.
Even down to construction techniques.

Sorry to say but German militaria is a minefield, even photos are faked now.

Good luck and post before you buy

Cheers

Herr

 

o and sorry, also stick too one topic of interest, dont go overboard.
If you only like say infantry, stick with that.

2 main reasons, less chance of getting burned and less spending money lol

I learned that recently, cant collect everything and learn everything

My two cents

Regards

Herr

 

Anyone else?

 

1)I keep some early catalogues from the 50s when there were not so many fakes. They are useful for comparisons.
2)Also when rarities tend to flood the market all the sudden whereas finding one single items was impossible until then is suspcious.
3) No markings does not mean anything: rather a beautiful item with no makings than one with supicious markings.
4) Pens have been used in the 1950s, so if you see markings written on clothing with pen, they are post war.
5) be careful with items from eastern Europe, the poles are good at making fakes.

 

Thanks Skipper.

 

I've found web forums for collectors to be the single most handy development. It helps to find which traders can't be trusted, which can, and all those in between. There's wide ranging forums as well as those which specialise, and they all seem very happy to help fellow collectors buy legitimate pieces at good prices.

Good points made about the German gear and Polish fakes, the latter IMHE extends across E. Europe including the Ukraine.

 

Do any of you guys have any pictures of fake militaria that you have purchased ?

 

do you have friends that own originals albeit medals or soft goods, field gear, insignia ? learn from them especially if they allow you to handle-feel the originals. purchase well researched documentation in books.

what are you actually trying to find out - medals or >>

 

I don't, but I know a few of the collectors sites do run galleries of fakes.

 

hi, i'm a newbie here. ive been collecting aviation memorabilia for 23 years, & i can tell you that good reference material is a must. i've bought books, on flight gear, japanese instruments, survival gear, etc. i spare no expense on good reference material, it's practically an investment that will pay off countless times. i've dropped up to 80 bucks for some books!!

 

There are many ways to tell fakes from real-some good ones listed above. I've been pretty lucky in that i've only been burned 2-3 times-and not for a whole hell of a lot. I intentionally purchased a fake Silver Close Combat Clasp (several years ago and is no relation to the good one I have now) just so I could study it. I bought it for under $10 bucks knowing it was garbage but good referance material. Since then, i've rid my collection of everything repo with the exception for a DKiG and an allegedly all-Saxon ribbon bar. I like the ribbon bar so I keep it. The DKiG only sees the light of day when im taking pictures of my Artillery Majors tunic.

For years everybody raved about a book called: Detecting the Fakes. I forget who the author is (Robin Lumsden?)-but I bought a copy-as one of my referance books-and found that it was a big $20.00 piece-of-crap-and I learned ZERO from it. At that time-I as just really starting to hit my stride on learning and collecting. By the time I got that book, I already had about a dozen books on the subject and they all upstaged that book as I had already more than learned the basics in collecting things of interest.

For me-cloth items are some of the easiest things to authenticate-and I don't believe in that BS about blacklighting cloth for the simple reason that if someone washes a cloth item using modern soap--the soap will cause the blacklighting to be null and void. I handwashed a pair of Neberwerfer Troops Enlistedmans Shoulderboards-took about 4 days to do so. When I got these in, they smelled like they were stored in a Sewer they stank so bad. I saw button residue on both boards and there is no way, that the smell and residue can be recreated-not like that. So therefore, since I plan on never parting with these shoulderboards-I washed them knowing that somebody would gripe about them failing the blacklighting test. I don't care because they will never be sold from my collection by me.

I don't believe in using a Jewlers Scale to weigh badges either-much for similar-like results and such.

Using you nose like your pet Cat or Dog--also helps. Gut-feeling is something else that helps. Once you get enough items in-you start to develope an inner feeling on things and that makes it easier.

I STRESS--before diving in into collecting--BUY PLENTY OF REFERANCE BOOKS FIRST, study the hell out of them and restudy them. Also, it helps to be friends with a few long time and wealthy colletors-ike I was lucky in having as my mentors. These guys were and are all so good at telling differances in things because they have been collecting 30-40- or more years and have had tons of many items in their collections at one time or another.

Im not and will always say I am no expert in anything in the German collecting world--except being an expert on the items in my collection. I use my collection as well of those of friends to compare my items with and such.

Also, someone mentioned above that there are many collctors websites out there to join-which is true and they CAN be a good place to use for referancing militaria. However, be forwarned that even all the """EXPERTS""" on those sites can be wrong on items too.

A good case in point happened to me by the Cough cough experts on waf-about an unissued set of Army Generals Collartabs I had and still have in my collection. I was told by several that they thought my tabs were repo-and also had a like equal number tell me my tabs were good-one Gent in particular-who is a well known Germanrank insignia collector-who has an absolutely an amazing collection-was one of those who voted that my tabs were good. A few of those that gave my tabs a thumbs down-happen to be collectors whose collections both-were about half full of real-and half fake.

One guy in particular based his opinions on my tabs being bad-all just because he had never seen a pair of Generals Collartabs that in the middle of the goldon the tabs-did not have a sizable "gap" in the center of it that was SUPPOSED to show red-while mine are sewn so tightly together-you can't see any red material.

Well, as I am also a photograph collector-and since then-I have seen almost as many period pictures of Generals and their insignia-that do not show a "gap" in the center of the gold on their collartabs-which would allow you to see the red in it. I have also seen many pics with the Generals collartabs that do show variying sized gaps in the center allowing you to see the red material. So therefore-that negates what those so-called ""experts"" opinions. Gee, I wonder how many collectors are duped out of their good stuff by so called: know-it-alls? and for far much cheaper than what they originally bought the item(s) for? I know this has happened tons of times to tons of people over on waf-and that certain and several collectors got a lot of what they now have in their own collections-for far cheaper than they could have bought those items for. Pigs like that who prey on unknowing collectors bug the hell out of me.

Also, on these, I got my Generals collartabs from one of those said rich collectors who had bought an entire Generals collection of uniforms, papers, badges and stuff-two huge wooden crates full of items--for about $50,000 Dollars back in 1997 or 1998. As these were an extra pair-he sold them to me.

Anyway, sorry for the long story but-I also wanted to stress to you to NOT believe everything you hear-and do plenty of your own research. It saved me from thinking about making a mistake in getting rid of these collartabs-which today will cost you around 500.00 +++ for a pair of them. Mine are mint-and would probably be priced upwards to $800.00.

Best regards--Carl.

 

80 ? try $110 each, for Kriegsmarine books !
Worth it though, although books are excellent references, they are not bibles, they can contain errors or mot be complete.

Regards

Herr

 

these are a few that got the thumbs down recently, and were fakes/copies I were told,ray..

 

echo carl,you learn! but it takes time too,ray..

 

oh! if it was that simple,listen to those who's advice will stand you in good stead,ray..

 

Hi Ray, based on the examples in my colectin of the badges and ID tag shown, the Ground Combat badge looks bad-based on lack of crisp detail and that I need to see the backside of it to be sure.

The ""Silver"" PAB is bad-great lack of crisp detail and the ""Silver"" finish looks bad and looks like just after it was "painted" that someone purposely wiped off it's highlights to appear as a "Been there and done that" badge. The wear is unnatural an can easily be compard with badges that have natural "wear an tear" to them if you have others badges to compare them with? The eagles head looks more like a Parrots head-which was a common indicator of repo badges for many many years.

I don't see anything wrong with your ID tag (though im no expert on tags) which appears to be made out of Aluminum. I have one that is also made out of aluminum-and was issued to a Sailor who served on a Commandants Staff in Wilhelmshaven.

The Glider Pilot Badge is bad. Lack of details on the adler as well as wreath.

The Bronze PAB I can't say for sure? unless it is a JFS marked PAB? If it is? then I know for sure its fake as JFS never made an unnumbered PAB. They made the PABs for 25, 50, 75, and 100 Assaults-badges only. This info was given to me by Frank Heukemes-who authored a book about General Assault Badges. Thanks to Frank, he saved me $150.00 bucks that wuld have been wasted on two fakes I bought at a gunshow about19 years ago.

When I saw these badges, I thought they looked great because the detail on their fronts was perfect. However, both were marked a being made by JFS (Josef Felix und Sohn) The JFS makes mark looked perfect too. I was lucky in that I went back to the show the next afternoon-and had just managed to catch the dealer already almost packed up and having already taken most of his items and loaded them up. I explained to him how I knew these were bad gving him copies of scans and text that Frank had sent to me.

This guy was angry but was good enough to give me a full refund without me asking for it. I then looked at the remaining German stuff he had not packed away and promptly bought a nice hollowback Silver IAB as well as a nice 1939 EKI-totalling $200.00 and he was still walking away with at least a $50 dollar profit-and more than he made withthose two PABs I bought the day before. He was greatful for me spending more money with him and though he was "out" of whatever money he had paid for those two PABs-he did still come out slightly ahead.

 

heres the back of combat carl,and tag..trouble is if you buy without knowledge and trust the dealer? you tend to believe just because its a dealer! and being a novice on awards and badges its easy to get sucked in,ray..:rolleyes

 

the ss dogtag I was told the unit did,nt exist for waffen ss,and wording was wrong too,ray..

 

Problem is that even the most reputable of dealers make mistakes. Some of the fakes out there now are every bit as good as the originals.
The first step for any collector is getting the relevant reference books, and maybe going to a militaria fair or two and handling the items for real, get a feel for them.