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Best Tank in Normandy

Discussion in 'The Tanks of World War 2' started by Commando, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. wozwasnt

    wozwasnt New Member

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    The Maus was still only a prototype when the war ended so it can't be "the biggest, toughest, most powerful tank during the Normandy campaign, after D-Day."

    All Tigers especially the KT had a devastating effect on Allied moral as they seemed all but unstoppable.

    Think about it - You're leading a column of Shermans knowing that the enemy can knock you out from 2000m away. Chances are you won't even know here's there until you get hit or your buddies tanks start brewing up, and you're only chance to retaliate is to get a side / rear shot from almost point blank range.

    It's like telling someone armed with a catapult to storm a machine gun nest.

    The KT may not have been the "Best Tank" in Normandy but it iwas the biggest, toughest and most powerful.

    Personally I think that the Panther was probably the best all round tank in Normandy.
     
  2. Commando

    Commando recruit

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    The Sherman was sometimes referred to as the "cigarette lighter" because it caught fire so easily. So I would not say it was the toughest or the biggest. I reckon the King Tiger was.
     
  3. Revere

    Revere New Member

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    The King Tiger was never in Normandy.
     
  4. Commando

    Commando recruit

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    Wiki says this about this picture. "A Tiger II of the 503rd Heavy Tank Battalion in Normandy, 1944, carrying the early (so-called "Porsche") turret"
     
  5. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    But was it really called that?

    See here for a discussion on that.
    http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4039

    Personally I have my doubts...
     
  6. sinissa

    sinissa New Member

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    Ronsons i belive was nickname for Shermans,but only early shermans got that problems,later wersion was fixed ( i think ammo storage was ishue there).
     
  7. wozwasnt

    wozwasnt New Member

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    503rd had 12 Tigers 2's early July (with Porsche Turrets) and Panzer-Lehr-Division had KT's. Though they weren't there for D-Day, they did take part in the Normandy Campaign.


    Early Shermans were called "Ronsons"* or Tommy cookers until they started fitting them with wet ammo storage.

    *Ronson was the name of a cigarette lighter whos advertising slogan was - "Lights up first time, every time"
     
  8. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any proof of this? Maybe you could contribute to my quest to authenticate these nicknames in this topic:

    http://www.fun-online.sk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4039


    The 'Ronson' Sherman was a flamethrower version whose flamethrowing equipment was made by (you might have guessed this) the Ronson Company
     
  9. wozwasnt

    wozwasnt New Member

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    Check http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronson's_Lighters

    near the bottom-

    During World War II, Sherman Tanks were nicknamed "Ronsons" by Allied troops because of their propensity for catching fire when hit by German tanks.

    I've read elsewhere about this nickname (and the slogan) but this is the first one that came up when I googled it.
     
  10. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    thats not proof, I could log on to Wiki and post that Shermans were nicknamed Gandalf by Allied troops as they often popped up to save the day.

    Doesn't make it true.

    The problem is that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes thought of as the truth even though it's not.

    Quotes are classic for this as a lot of so called famous quotes are actually misquoted.

    The only traditions of the Royal Navy are rum, sodomy and the lash - False
    Houston, we have a problem - False
    The only good Indian is a dead Indian - False
    Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely - False
    Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned - False
    Sherman Tanks were nicknamed "Ronsons" by Allied troops because of their propensity for catching fire when hit by German tanks - unproven

    FNG
     
  11. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    Average engagement range in Normandy was significantly less than this so that was irrelevent.

    Plus you were far more likely to be engaged by a 75mm either from an Stug, PIV or Panther than the 88 of a Tiger or King Tiger. At the ranges a lot of the engagements took place the maximumum penettrations at maximum ranges were irrelevent.

    Anyone any figures for 75mm AT guns to 88's in Normandy as I assume that that 75mm AT was also the main infantry AT gun.

    FNG
     
  12. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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  13. wozwasnt

    wozwasnt New Member

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    It was very relevent.

    Just knowing that the enemy had a tank that could knock out our tanks a such ranges but was all but invunrable except at very short ranges was hugely demoralising for the allies.

    The point I was making was that the tank commanders were worried that there might be a Tiger round every corner which means they are more cautious. Being more cautious meant they advanced slower which gave the Germans more time to prepare their defences.

    OK there were more 75mm's around but just the thought that there could be a Tiger hiding in some woods 2Km's away, just waiting for you to drive out of town would scare the hell out of anyone.
     
  14. Commando

    Commando recruit

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    There was a German chap called Michael.........; I forgot his second name, but in Normandy on one occasion he just drove through the town of Villiers in his KT just shooting up any tank or AFV he saw.
     
  15. me262 phpbb3

    me262 phpbb3 New Member

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    but mike drove a tiger I not a KT!!!! :grin:
     
  16. wozwasnt

    wozwasnt New Member

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    He wouldn't have gone very far if he'd been in a Sherman and there'd been a line of Tigers on the road.
     
  17. Commando

    Commando recruit

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    He sure wouldn't have. :grin:
     
  18. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    I think you over romantacise the myth of the Tiger, if they were that feared the british tank crews would never of left their LCT's

    Besides, I think it was the armour the tank crews feared, not the 88's it mounted.

    You have to remember that the tiger's 88 was not That good and was actually quite old. The Panther's 75mm was a far better weapon in my mind

    FNG
     
  19. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between perception and reality.

    After all, while the vast majority of German tanks in action were not Tigers, the Allied tank crews saw them everywhere. To be fair, being in action is not the best time to be taking accurate records of exactly what happens (if you even see the enemy), and the Pz.IV with side- and turret-skirts does superficially resemble the Tiger I.

    As to the reputation, Tigers were first encountered by the Western Allies in North Africa, where the long-ranged gun was able to be used to good effect, and hence it gained a fearsome reputation.
     
  20. FNG phpbb3

    FNG phpbb3 New Member

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    Really? I always assume Tunisia was rotten tank country being rocky, mountenous and swampy all at the same time.

    FNG
     

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