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Boston bombs...

Discussion in 'The Stump' started by urqh, Apr 15, 2013.

  1. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    The trick is going to be keeping him alive; the last thing we need is someone pulling a "Jack Ruby" and turning this whole mess into a conspiracy theorist wet dream.

    I think it is interesting how the government has decided to suspend the suspects 5th amendment rights during the intitial "questioning" due to "iminent threat" of more bombs. The suspension of the "Miranda Advisement" is not unheard of when there are exigent circumstances and the interrogation is contemporaneous to to a violent or dangerous act wich has occured or may occur.
    An example of this is in the movie "Dirty Harry" when harry is stepping on Skorpio's, freshly .44 magnum shattered, leg asking: "Where's the girl". The torture aside Harry was well within "good faith" in asking the subject where the girl was absent of the Miranda admonishment because there was a pre exisiting exigent circumstance, the girl was going to die, unless Harry got the location.
    Now the problem with the Marathon Bomber is that the act occured 5 days ago and he is expected to be unavailable for questioning for, at least, another 5 days. At a certain point the exigency is going to expire and this guy will become a martyr for civil rights abuse and everything that is wrong with the western judicial process and all the work to catch him will be done for naught; because his civil rights were violated.
     
  2. Totenkopf

    Totenkopf אוּרִיאֵל

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    Oh there is plenty to criticize the Saudis for, when you see the democratic turn that several "Muslim" countries are taking, the Saudis have no real reason why they cannot become more Liberal. I can say with a bit of a smile though that the process is underway, or at the least appears to be. But alas that is unrelated to this.

    If the prisoner is tortured or has some of the "legal torture" (ala sensory deprivation) methods employed against him we may learn the Saudis are involved. Its all speculation of course right now, but Saudi money has a bad record of "getting around".
     
  3. A-58

    A-58 Cool Dude

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    I believe that the liberal press in the UK is not portraying the full story over there. From what has been plastered on the tube (TVs, not a tunnel) indicated that law enforcement had more than enough probable cause to pick the Chechen Brothers up for questioning.
     
  4. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Liberal press...? We've been here before mate...depends what you mean by Liberal...Not my or anyones interperatation of Liberal being used where British press is concerned...Anyhows...Its covered and was covered...wall to wall 24 hours a day on BBC news channel...no breaks...We watched it unfolding from day one to end of boat...And now still LIBERALLY, plastered on the news channel all day still...No worries..We are seeing what you are seeing and reading.
     
  5. USMCPrice

    USMCPrice Idiot at Large

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    The coverage has really gotten stupid. I saw a segment on the news today where they are warning that we all need to be careful that we didn't get PTSD from watching the news coverage! WTF, because you watched this stuff on TV you thought your life was in imminent danger? We're becoming a nation of whiners.
     
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  6. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Or Oh Diana'''''''s....As we call it...A moment in time when Brits noticed a subtle change...and X Factor took over the country....(Diana's coffin coming out onto road towards cathederal in London...all quiet and respectful...then some prat shouted in high pitched tone...Oh Diana.....I thought it was a song meself...but there you go...Maybe America has just had its Oh Diana moment then Pricey...
     
  7. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Juggs was able to dumb it down so's I could understand perfectly, the Miranda thingy. Remember watching that movie at a drive in. Snuck in the trunk. Wore my Edmonton Eskimo jammies. Saw boobs...Fortunately those things haven't scarred or imprinted....
    And Amram [whomever], shot himself in the neck?...Was he too vain to blow his face off...Have heard some folk fail with the pistolo's. Maybe the recoil, second thought's, a burp...He drove over his brother but couldn't kill himself....Also would it be too conspiracy to wonder about the cell they are connected with? ..Hope they dig deep and remove the whole wart.
     
  8. Hufflepuff

    Hufflepuff Semi-Frightening Mountain Goat

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    I just hope us Americans aren't stupid enough to clamor for "war!" over this whole thing. The two guys that did it had grown up here in the states and were of Chechen descent, not ACTUAL Chechens.

    Also, it's not Czechoslovakia... for God's sake.

    Sometimes my country confuses me.
     
  9. Takao

    Takao Ace

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  10. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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  11. Slipdigit

    Slipdigit Good Ol' Boy Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    The younger terrorist was born in Kyrgyzstan after the dissolution of the Soviet Empire and abused the US oath of citizenship last September .

    The elder terrorist was born in Russian SFRS and was still a citizen of Russia when he murdered US citizens, attempted to elude capture and was ran over by his own brother.
     
  12. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    There were and are enought troubling questions from what I've heard that I believe they very much wanted to capture him alive..

    I also remember reading of a case recently where they didn't read the criminal his "Miranda" rights. In that case the DA was able to convince the judge and I believe the appeals court that perp knew them without haveing to be read them. His statements were allowed and he was convicted and the conviction upheld.
     
  13. brndirt1

    brndirt1 Saddle Tramp

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    This exemption to the Miranda business has been around since the eighties, it is used rarely and is rather vague on what the timeline is between apprehension and the Miranda rights being included in the interviews. Just wait and see what happens folks, let's not jump conclusions like CNN and other "news" outlets. I believe there is also a provision that anything said outside of or pre-Miranda is exempted from introduction in court, but don't hold me to that I might have heard that wrong.

    What I personally believe (my speculation only) is that we captured the little brother who followed his big brother around like a puppy dog doing whatever to please. The older brother may or may not have become dis-enchanted in America's values when he didn't make it onto the US Olympic team. That was his goal a few years ago, and I've never seen it mentioned that he made the team. Last year he spent six months back home in the Chechen area, and may have become radicalized in his hate of America for just a such a simple reason as that boxing failure.

    Don't be surprised if it is just that pettyand/or mundane, a young man in his early twenties whose long stated goal as American Olympian boxer was suddenly out of his reach. "It couldn't be his fault, it couldn't be that he wasn't good enough, it must be because he was a Muslim and America hates Muslims." That sort of rationale seems to permeate religious extremists, they need someone to blame for their own failure. Another thing that must never be forgotten. Terrorists are not "born", they are "made" by injustices; real or imaginary.

    Just my opinion here boys and girls, but think back to when you yourself were in your early twenties.
     
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  14. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    Want to guess too. ..This cowboy has some electrical experience. And access to the net...Would not have the confidence in any device produced not to blow cowboy up. Let alone carry around in backpack all day .. Do not know where to find a device that would initiate [a secure] ignition...Was it fused/timed or remotely detonated?...Cellular signatures at time of explosion.....Hoping this opinion doesn't sound too conspiracy....Would want our investigators to look for worst case scenarios, then go for the lighter stuff after.
     
  15. formerjughead

    formerjughead The Cooler King

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    It all has to do with "the interest of public safety" and I just don't see there being a credible threat at this point; if I was on the interrogation team, I would be uncomfortable with that decision.I think it would almost be better to water board the guy, digest any intel he might give up, snuff him and be done with it and let this be a cautionary tale to anyother would be terrorist.
     
  16. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    Actually I heard a compelling explanation (on TV no less) on why they might be able to continue without a Miranda warning.

    The thinking being that their (Law enforcement) only concern is the need to gather intell quickly. Worst case for them is that nothing he says can be used against him in court, which in this case is meaningless as they believe they have enough physical evidence to convict. (no need for a 'confession')
     
  17. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    And that takes us back to TD Tommy's post on possible explanation earlier in thread....Much the same reasoning. And probably a mix of both Tommy's and Clints appraisals.
     
  18. urqh

    urqh Tea drinking surrender monkey

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    Poppy, without having the FBI raid ww2 Forums...Its not that difficult a task. I'll point you to earlier conflict of Ireland again...Bomb making, both basic and expert, takes access to materials...the knowledge to assemble something is pretty simple after that.
     
  19. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    It's more difficult than it was when I was in high school but we played around with a number of explosives then, for some reason they wouldn't let us buy significant quantites of powdered carbon but metalic Sodium, Potassium Chlorate, and red Phosphorus by the pound were fine. We also played around with primitive fuel air explosives althouth they weren't called that back then or at least the term wasn't popular.

    As stated it's not tricky and there are a number of resources on the web. I think on NPR they mentioned that not only did Al Quda have a site that tells how to make such bombs but at least one of the right wing extremist groups had links to that page.
     
  20. belasar

    belasar Court Jester Staff Member

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    Ah so your the one my parents said I shouldn't hang around with!
     

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