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Bush

Discussion in 'The Members Lounge' started by Zhukov_2005, Mar 6, 2004.

  1. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    I made this topic to see what everyone on this site, although most do not even live in North America, thinks about the US president George "dubbya" Bush. But not only him but also what people think of the Patriot Act, the way Bush is handleing Iraq, etc. I can not vote yet but I do consider myself a Democrate, so I do not feel kindly for him.

    First of all, the US is 2.4 trillion dollars in dept right now, but about 200 million of this is from 1930's-2000. As you can see, most of the dept came from Bush's "rule". But when the whole Repulican way of running the government is "Lower Taxes and Increase Defense Budgeting" what do you expect. If you look that is very contradictory.

    Second of all is the Patriot Act. This allows the government to legally search and spy every aspect of you life (but for some reason I dont think any Americans care, but bring up Gun Control and thats a different story :-? ). Americans can now be arrested for no reason up to 4 days. You can be imprisoned without a trial, and so on.

    If you want to complain or criticize please do so.
     
  2. Skua

    Skua New Member

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    I´ll allow this topic for now. But only if the topic can be debated in a civil manner. I´ll close it, or even remove it completely, if it turns personal and/or ugly.

    Please be nice. :wink:
     
  3. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    I didn't intend for it to turn ugly, I just want to hear what people outside of North America think of Bush.
     
  4. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Criticism should go both ways. If anyone has anything to say in Bush's defence then please do so as well.

    Personally, I completely agree with Zhukov_2003.
     
  5. Skua

    Skua New Member

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    My appeal was not directed at you Zhukov_2003, but at those who will respond to your topic. Discussing Bush has a tendency to turn ugly, at least that´s what I´ve experienced so far at other forums.
     
  6. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    Oh sorry for misinterpeting you Skua. But I know what you mean, I remember getting in some pretty nasty agruments about birth control, Iraq, and Bush but the people on this site seem much more open.
     
  7. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    You didn't capitalize President. Can I make fun of you now?

    We have been in debt before Bush.

    Bush was elected in 2000, not 1930. It has little to do with him.
     
  8. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    The point Zhukov was making was that of 2.4 trillion dollars of debt, only 200 million can be accounted to administrations before Bush's. So i think Americans might have something to blame on him, however I can not confirm these numbers.

    And everybody makes typos, i think that is hardly a ground to criticize people.
     
  9. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    Exactly my point. So Bush isn't a walking Spell checker, who cares?
     
  10. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Well, he did make some remarks that will be remembered by the next genetration, in a negative sense. Like saying 'it is time for the human race to enter the solar system.' :lol:
     
  11. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    God forbid the leader of the free world tries to be poetic.
     
  12. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    Thanks Roel. This topic isn't about grammer(I get enough of that at school, thank you) its about the way people see Bush.

    I am not blamming Bush for the dept the US is in before his presidency, considering most of that is from the 30's depression anyway, but I am blamming Bush for running up the dept over 1000 times what it was before he was president. Think about it.
     
  13. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    Zhukov, you don't seem to understand that the value of the American dollar is changing. A new Sherman in 1944 costs significantly less than a new M1A2 does now.
     
  14. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    That's because the Sherman is as simple a design as they get, while the Abrams is stuffed with millions upon millions of dollars' worth of electronics. Same goes for the F22 jet fighter. This makes defence expenses ridiculously high, and it makes it easier to question them. The technology and commercialization of war production makes it cost a mighty lot. But still, 217 billion dollars a year for defence, i think that is uneccesary and can be used for other pruposes better.
     
  15. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    I do understand quite well. The 200 million that is owed was converted into todays standards. Before it was 200 million I don't know how much it was.
     
  16. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    Actually the Sherman was a very complex design for that era and had allot of things the German tanks didn't have until much, much later. Electronic turret, for one. And a gyro stabilization system for the cannon for another. But anyway..

    About him spending too much money: Never mind the fact that NASA requested millions to correct all their shuttles after an incident while he was in office. Never mind 9/11 which called for millions of dollars updating security for airlines and reconstruction. Never mind the anthrax attacks and the military actions in Afghanistan and Iraq. All of this takes money. You guys are making it sound like he’s spending it on shoes or something.
     
  17. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    This is very true and a good point, but was Iraq really necessairy? By the looks of it so far, definently not. But also alot of this money (if you do the math) just disappears into Congresses pockets and other unknown parties.
     
  18. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    We're giving a Middle Eastern nation a second chance without a psycho who bombs his own people leading it. Was it required? Seeing as we haven’t found any WMDs, no, I suppose not. But the citizens of Iraq are damn well grateful. So, should we just put Saddam back into power and send him an apology letter telling him we were wrong?
     
  19. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    You really are shooting around all over the place.


    Are you sure about that? Have you seen the news lately, non-stop attacks against US personal, hundreds of riots by the Iraqi civilians protesting the "American Infidel Pig Dog Invasion", and constant attacks towards Iraqi's who are working with the Americans. Doesn't sound like they are to happy.

    No, he is out and should stay out, I am just concerned that the US government lied to invade Iraq. And if they didn't lie and actually thought there were WMD's in Iraq, then they spent 100's of billions of dollars on what the UN knew with a fraction of that cost.

    And don't get me wrong, I fell great gratitude to the soldiers in Iraq (I have an Uncle in Afghanistan so I know what its like) but if you look at the way the US invaded Iraq, bombing everything except of course the oil, which makes the US look little better than pirates.

    (Also when a say US I mean the politicians/government running the war not the actual American people)
     
  20. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    The attacks against our troops are from remnants of Saddams army and a few rebel factions. Not citizens of Iraq. I get spamed with pictures over MSN of Iraqie citizens waving flags and praising U.S. Soldiers.
     

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