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Discussion in 'The Members Lounge' started by Zhukov_2005, Mar 6, 2004.

  1. Mutant Poodle

    Mutant Poodle New Member

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    Wow, I never knew the Aliens gave me the tech for a steel shovel? :lol:
    Thanks for the heads up!

    Quite a fixation with aliens, you have there. Is there something we should know about? :wink:
     
  2. GP

    GP New Member

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    You might be interested in this.

    http://www.natenergy.org.uk/co2mment.htm
     
  3. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    SgtBob, do you know the difference between an ideal and reality? I would say that you do, but do the other Americans?

    Democracy and freedom for all is an ideal. Reality is that it has to grow in people's minds first before it can be effectively installed. Democracy and freedom for all in the US is an ideal. Reality is that people are imperfect and won't allow others to have what they have, whether it's power or money or liberties or whatever. Justice for all is an ideal. Reality is that the American system of courts is probably just as flawed as any other, and that international courts are usually judged to be least biased because of their independent view on foreign cases. Equal treatment of all nations is an ideal. Reality is that those with the means to solve problems will be made to do so, and those without the means will be largely overlooked; thus at least part of the problem is solved.

    So the world is a screwed up place that all Americans fled in terror and despair? Well maybe that explains why all the screwed up people now live over there, the rest of the world has changed over time but they have not. Wow, now I've done it, I've never been so insulting in my forum history. Sorry! :oops: I had to say it.

    And I f***ing hate soccer!!
     
  4. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    The difference between Europe and the U.S. is that the U.S. does strive towards making those ideals a reality. Europe likes to stand around and complain that "reality s**ks". That's was pretty much their plan for Bosnia.

    And yes, sooooo many screwed up people live here, suffering under the thumb of oppression, inequality, and injustice. Additional poor souls are boated, trucked, and marched across our borders against their wills. It's pitiful, really.
     
  5. GP

    GP New Member

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    Against their wills, by whom?
     
  6. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    GP, you really must learn the art of sarcasm. It takes away all the fun if anyone takes it seriously!
     
  7. GP

    GP New Member

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    I just didn't you knew it.
     
  8. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Sorry, my cynicism just kicked me.

    The US stives towards imposing its ideals on everybody else. (Not claiming that the US is alone in doing that!) The US does tend to experience the problem of a lack of basic research into how other cultures approach stuff before attempting change, though...
     
  9. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    Believe it or not, I tend to agree.
     
  10. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    See, that is why Europeans are more inclined to describe reality than to describe the ideals they strive for. They don't fool people into coming here for the great democracy and opportunity. Yet they still come, because they aren't drawn by ideals; they are drawn by money. All those poor souls come to America and Europe because they think the economic opportunity is greater there, not because they feel they will be treated equally and trialed with justice. At least that's what all those Cubans and Mexicans coem to the US for.

    I haven't seen any moves made by the US government in the direction of realising their ideals. All they do is turn back what the previous opposing-party government has done, over and over. Boy, you just have to dislike the two-party system.
     
  11. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    The Mexicans often come for economic reasons (though their government isn't anything to brag about). A majority of the Cubans want out of Castro's version of Communism (don't they always?), over a million at last count. Everyone else is a combination of economic and political, to varying degrees.
     
  12. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Yes, I'm sure that if Korea's borders were as easily crossed as Cuba's borders, from the inside out, then South Korea would be flooded too. This is all the more proof that no version of communism has ever worked in reality. But that's not fair play; of course any state is an improvement over such a totalitarian communist place, and fleeing Cubans just choose the best alternative they can see (closest, richest).

    I'm just saying that the greater part of the influx of people to the US is not caused by its great moral standards.
     
  13. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    For example, Britain gets a lot of illegal immigrants from Africa, the Middle East and Asia, because we're the closest place that is percieved as both rich and likely to accept them.

    I think that these are the 2 main requirements, though there are a heck of a lot of people genuinely fleeing persecution (I know a Zimbabwean priest who has just been granted Asylum, for example). I'm not too sure how persecuted Cubans are. Any knowledge out there on this?
     
  14. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    I would never say much good about our present moral standards. However our media is concentrated on both coasts, which are the worst areas, and makes things look worse than they are. 'Flyover country', as the rest is called, is much different especially outside the large cities.
     
  15. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Is most of the population on the coasts?
    (Or rather, in the coastal states)
     
  16. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    I believe the current percentage, done by counties instead of states, is 55-60%.
     
  17. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    I always wondered why Canada never got a bunch of Russian border jumpers? Or do people think its that bad? :D
     
  18. johann phpbb3

    johann phpbb3 New Member

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    The US doesn't look at the history of other countries, about how they developed and what they have done to be where they are. In Vietnam, we believed that everyone wanted to be just like us. What they really wanted was freedom from all foreign invaders. For the past 500 years, they had been fighting for freedom from one country or another. Did the US pay attention? No. We were blinded by our ideals.
     
  19. Ricky

    Ricky New Member

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    Wouldn't they need to go through Alaska first?
     
  20. SgtBob

    SgtBob New Member

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    I think we really could have gotten to that point relatively quickly (Vietnam self-determination) , but our backing of a government that was as screwed up as the Communists we were trying to defeat was a hopelss position.
     

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