Bush

Of course you will only see these kind of pictures. Why would they want to show you the bad pictures? I have a friend with Arab satelitte so I see alot of Al Jezera (or however it is spelled) and I see nothing but riots by the civilians. But of course it could all be propaganda...

 

Who the heck is they? My friend in Iraq sends me these pictures over MSN Messenger.

 

What?

 

This is starting to get a bit out of hand.

First. The people of Iraq are not a homogenous group. The two largest fractions are the Sunni-muslims and the Shia-muslims ( and there´s also the Kurds of course, and even some Christians ). The Shia-muslims and especially the Kurds were supressed by Saddam. The Shia-muslims might have considered the American / UN forces as liberators, and quite a lot of them do, but matters are not quite that simple. They still feel that they have more in common with other muslims and that the U.S. have interfered, especially by their support to Israel, with Arab matters. "Saddam might have been an evil dictator, but he was our evil dictator" so to speak. This is a case of Arab dignity, and I´m afraid the allready dwindling gratitude towards their Western liberators will disappear in the near future. I feel that the U.S. have done the same error they did in Vietnam. The failed to gain enough knowledge about the culture they were up against.

Secondly. Zhukov_2003 asked about how non-Americans felt about President Bush. I wont elaborate on that right now. But may I suggest that we return to this initial question. It might be both interesting and educational to both Americans and non-Americans.

 

The Media. I thought you meant that MSN sends you updates on the war. The media would rather send good news about the war than bad wouldn't they?

You couldn't have put it better.

I wonder where it went so far off topic...

 

Actualy, the maker of this thread asked what everyone on this site thought of Bush. But whatever, i'm done.

 

Aw...Come on, I was just getting warmed up.

 

You shouldn't be challenging anybody for overheated discussion, or you'll force Skua to intervene - again.
What I think of Bush, and this is just my opinion, is that he is abusing his power to do good for a very small faction of the US people and to fight wars to which everyone objects, just to preserve his economical position in the world (i.e. oil). His lowering taxes for the rich, just like Schwarzenegger does in California, only shows that he is not out there for the US people but for those rich conservative people who say they believe in some manifest destiny whereas they try to dominate the world to make money. The world will switch to capitalism, now, and either way; voluntarily or by force. This doesn't make this economic system based on personal freedom look any better, and it even creates a giant block of resistance against it, even though it isn't all that bad; the simple fact that these power-craving American bigshots will be in charge rightfully scares the countires which form the possible next 'victim' of Bush's wars. This system doesn't appear to give them any merit, just suppression by a new force; in this way they'll never see the advantages.
I also think it is a grave injustice to raise funding for defence when your country isn't even in danger, whereas your social security system drastically needs updating and funding, your educational system makes for the stupidest youth of the world with an IQ average of 10 points lower than that of european children, and still a widely spread inequality and salad-bowl society between black and white. Bush is looking at threats outside, while his own home is about to collapse because problems within the borders are getting out of hand. He is wasting his time and US taxpayers' money.

 

Very well put. Medi-care is in shambles and there are no steps being taken to fix it.

This guy is a joke.

Well I definently not say the US isn't in danger (remember 9/11?) but the media does hype it to a degree that scares the crap out of its population and make it think some unknown Arab country is going to launch a nuke at New York.

I agree with the US's invasion of Afghanistan because 9/11 was a horrible tragedy, and something had to be done to raise the moral of the American population, much like Doolittle Raid after Pearl Harbour. But I Iraq was a whole other story, but I won't get into that.

 

Of course I remember 9/11/01, but I don't think that there is anyhting hypermodern jet fighters can do about terrorists in line aircraft. The increase in security on airports, even if sometimes taken too far, is much more effective against such terrorism. That is why I said the US isn't in danger: it is not being directly threatened by a military force of any kind.

 

My opinion about George Bush;

I think Bush is not doing anything good at all internationally. For the usa itself I do not have the sources and the info to form a opinion.

At this present time all western governments are changing the laws in a negative way for us citizens. Giving the state (police, security services, intelligenge/secret services) unconditional powers and authorities.
This happens also in my country The Netherlands.
Our police can arrest every citizen without notifieng any family or attorny.
The police nor the security forces are not any more obliged to present evidence nor to officially accuse a suspect. If someone is suspected of any crime the police can detain you for 30 days without visit or right on a attorny. Also our intelligence/secret service the AIVD has all authority to tap all phonecalls, email and mail. Apart from this they have the authority to make a dossier of every dutchmen with all kinds of info from medical to religious to what kind of bed you have. All privacy laws are now bypassed with terrorist laws active on every citizen of the netherlands.
(In the netherlands more phonecalls are tapped then in any other country)

What has this to do with Bush?

Well after 9/11 Bush started with pushing forward these special anti-terrorist laws in all Nato member countries. Abusing a so called threat he started in the usa with these laws and exported the ideas and factual laws to every allied nation.

Bush has ''liberated'' Afganistan and Iraq from brute dictators.
''Revealing'' Saddam as a great threat for all it's neighboors and for the usa itself. Although I did'nt liked Saddam at all it was wrong to invade Iraq. The USA demanding of countries to conform with un and international resolutions and laws, but at the same time claiming that these resolutions and international laws do not comply on the usa.
This gives the terrorists all rights to fight a war of terror against the usa.
When the elected? governments do not want to act according to the un regulations why should guerilla's,freedom fighters and terrorist do so?


Bush himself is in my view not a smart guy, he is once interviewed about foreign countries and he could not answer any question about capitals,leaders, population nor could he even say in wich continent the countries situated. It gives me a bad feeling when such a man can be president of the dominant country in the world.

He sends thousands of soldier to war, many soldiers come wounded (physically or mentally) back. Other soldiers are killed and come back in body bags sometimes missing parts or so mutulated that relatives can't identify them anymore.
He himself has also been in military service so he knows what he is causing............. as a national guards pilot with perhaps one week of service in the usa itself. He used the influence of his father to go in the national guard and not in the army thus preventing doing service in Vietnam. Again it gives me a bad feeling that such, walking away for military service, a man can be elected president and decide to send soldiers into war.

Someone claims that the iraqi people is very happy with the americans. I don't think this is the case, in present iraq there is great unrest and unmatched violence. The us occupieing troops are still busy defeating the old enemy and meanwhile new enemies rise. While doing this they cause great damage to private property and detain iraqi's who in many cases never shot a single bullet at the us troops. If this is the great liberation then I am sure the iraqi' s are very happy......


In all I consider Bush a very dumb person who's actions as president of the only superpower in the world threaten each civilions peace,security and privacy. He is a danger for our future.

You can't seriously mean that any opponent of the usa is able to attack, let alone destroy, the usa without the cia/nsa/fbi or any cooperative intelligence service from other countries (like the mossad who knew about the 9/11 attack plans, and when the mossad knows it the cia knew it) not knowing about it.

 

Don't push it.

 

Danyel, if you could tell by the smile face by that message you should probably be able to understand that I was joking so calm down.

 

I never knew it was this bad in western Europe. As you said the US has had a lot of influence in the way UN countries do their national security.

This is very true, they are fighting what they believe in so I support the troops, but they were put in harm's way by lies. Nothing but lies and misinformation.

 

I never knew it was this bad in western Europe. As you said the US has had a lot of influence in the way UN countries do their national security.

This is very true, they are fighting what they believe in so I support the troops, but they were put in harm's way by lies. Nothing but lies and misinformation.

I know exactaly what you mean. Bush is much more of a danger than a thousand Saddams put together just because he runs the most powerful country in the world.

 

In fact it's so bad in Holland because we have a weak government right now; our four-year parliament is nothing but Bush-loving ass-kissers who want to be a close ally to the US because of possible political gain, but not for the interest of the Dutch people. Hardly anyone here approves of the government's attitude towards Bush.
In fact, one of our secretaries (foreign affairs) kissed Bush's ass so enthusiastically that he was removed from his function posthaste to be appointed NATO secretary general. You can only fulfill the requirements of this function if you are willing to do everything the US tell you to.
Why was this hopelessly outdated agency not disbanded?

 

Well, I was watching the news today and another 5 US soldiers and 4 coalition delegates where killed yesterday. The coalition members were dragged thru the streets and then hung from a local bridge. When will this stop? How much longer can the US government put up with this? Isn't it time to say Screw it, to hell with Iraq, they don't want our help so we won't give it to them.

Anyways, a senator from the US was blaming the UN for the recent attacks and bombings in Iraq. He said it was the UN's job to control the Iraqi people. This really pisses me off when you think how the US started the war, can't finish it, and now blames the UN for the problems. Whats next, maybe it was the UN's fault that over 200 Spainards died in that horrible train bombing. Or is it the UN's fault that the US has pretty much forgotten about Osama, the guy we should really be after?

 

Zhukov, the members of the UN have openly stated that they all want a piece of Iraq. So, yes, it is their job just as much as it is anyones.

 

How could the United Nations possibly control the iraqi people without any troops?