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Canadian 3rd Div. v 12 SS Panzer

Discussion in 'Information Requests' started by Martin Bull, Jul 1, 2002.

  1. Panzerknacker

    Panzerknacker New Member

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  2. Smoke286

    Smoke286 Member

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    Jumbo, to the best of my knowlege there was not a dicipline problem among Canadian troops in WW II, as mentioned here earlier. I read somewhere that the Canadian Infantry's best atributes were that they were more diciplined then the Americans and able to absorb more damage and still perform then the average British unit. their biggest drawback in my opinion was that by trying to avoid the draft, the re-enforcement problem had become critical by late 44. I know that in the fall of 44 the Hasty "P's" of the 1st Division formed a new company "X" out of returning wounded, HQ staff and the remaining 20 odd soldiers of another company that they disbanded.
     
  3. Gerald Duval Compositeur

    Gerald Duval Compositeur Member

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    as far as I know Ever since the incedent at the abby the 12th SS and the Canuck 3rd div. had a blood fued going. When the canadian soldiers captured a HJ if he wasn't shot he was beaten pretty badly. I dont really think the two units "cooled down" until well into '45 but i could be wrong. It was completely the HJs fault. Training a child that he is superior to everyone else, giving him a snappy uniform and then just handing him a gun and saying "go kill" is a recepie for disaster. More than likely they turned on that killer instinct but were unable to turn it off. That's why the HJ became known as the "Murder Division"
     
  4. Smoke286

    Smoke286 Member

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    From:
    Battle Diary
    Charles Cromwell Martin DCM, MM, CM
    CSM A Coy The Queens Own Rifles Of Canada
    8th Bde , 3rd Canadian Inf div
    Pg 22 (This section deals with the aftermath of an engagement between the QOR and the 12thSS at Le Mensil-Patry on June 11th 1944)

    During our approach to the village on that June 12 patrol we came across Tommy McLaughlin and his section. We'd been crossing a grain field,following a little dip in the ground not knowing where the enemy was or how soon we were going to hear from them. When your that tense, every little sound or sighting is magnified. Even at a distance, the six bodies didn't look right. We could see the field dressings on the wounds and the prayer books strewn round about. They were around fiftey feet from a low wall where the ground dropped away and provided some cover. My guess is they had all been machine-gunned in the action and had retreated over the wall to patch up as best they could. think the enemy hd come up to the wall and spotted them; Tommy's section would have been in plain sight and an easy surrender.
    Then we came close and saw each had been pistol shot in the temple. We had to move on and finish the patrol, but the image of our murdered men in that little draw, wounded and with field dressings, all of thems prisoners, their weapons gone, stayed with us. For myseld, well, I had pretty strong feelings about what I'd do when I got my chance. But when it came down to it, I couldn't do it, I couldn't follow through with that kind of revenge."
     
  5. Smoke286

    Smoke286 Member

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    Battle Diary
    Page 46
    This passage deals with an assault on a suburb of Caen

    "The action started on July 18 at 7:00 with A and B companies. We took a lot of prisoners. A cruel and inexplicable act was committed by a prisoner who had been wounded. One of our QOR stretcher-bearers bandaged up his leg, and when we started moving forward again, the man pulled his pistol and began firing into the backs of those who had helped him. He killed one of our men, a man who had already been wounded.
    In the turmoil, as we grabbed his weapon away from him, his arm was broken and he was pretty roughed up. A group of prisoners carried him back on a four-by-eight-foot sheet of corrugated iron with a note attached for the military police explaining what he had done."

    Personally I think this act was despicable and these Canadian soldiers were remarkably restrained.
     
  6. Kampfgruppe - von Root

    Kampfgruppe - von Root Dishonorably Discharged

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    Remember, history is written by the victors. In war crimes are commited by both sides.

    That is the most idiotic statement I've heard in a weeks. Have you ever read anything about the 12th SS?

    Only elite soldiers could accomplish what they did.
     
  7. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    I concur Kampfgruppe! Regardless of who started it, both sides committed atrocities. As far as the 12th being known as the "murder" division, that is a new one. :rolleyes:
     
  8. macrusk

    macrusk Proud Daughter of a Canadian WWII Veteran

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    My Dad was a Canadian soldier in WWII. He was in the 2nd Division. All my life I knew about the murder of POWs at Abbey d'Ardennes and my father's enduring hatred for the 12SS Hitler Youth and Kurt Meyer. He also always made it clear that any POW should be safe - regardless of nationality. Generally, he was a moderate in most beliefs, and considering that my parents and brothers later lived in Germany while posted with the RCAF - they commented that they had no problem with the average German who did thier duty - it was only the Nazis and the 12SS Hitler Youth they despised. My Mum also hated the Japanese for their actions in WWII, but that is another story.

    Their are several posts in this thread from years ago that show a woeful lack of knowledge then about the Canadians, both during their time in Britain and fighting in NW Europe, and Italy.
     
  9. JTF-2

    JTF-2 Member

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    I would be interested in seeing the source of this quote

     

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