challenger 2 vs abrams

True, but low heat sig meanI can hide and blow the carp out of everyone.

 

how do you figure that out?

im aware of the published figures of gun performence and the latest us round is marginaly better than charm 3.

But in terms of armour thickness, how do you assume the abrams is tougher than the challenger?

in the greek trails the abrams did have the best hunter killer mode for its fcs but the challenger 2 beat the abrams on mobility.]

so for most things id say the tanks are fairly even.

but your right crew skill is more important.

 

Why is it that every time someone tries to compare two tanks someone points out that the crew is an important factor - of course the crew are an important factor but the question is about the tanks. For the purpose of a like for like comparison such other factors should be assumed to be equal whether we know that to be untrue or not.

Anyway -

Challenger 2 more mobile cross country though Abrahms has higher top speed.

Guns - very similar on both but the rifled Challenger gun is on record as knocking out Iraqi tanks at a greater distance.

Protection - Challenger 2 has better - experience in Iraq demonstrated this.

Software - Abrahms probably has the edge.

Crews :roll:

 

More mobile defined how?

AFAIK one opportunity presented itself in the last Gulf War for an ultra long range shot that was successful. Are you aware of any attempts that were unsuccessful by Abrams tanks at that range?

I'm not aware of anything in Iraq that has demonstrated that the Challenger II is better protected than the Abrams. Perhaps you could be more specific.

 

though the challenger is a very nice tank, i have to say Abrams

 

Challenger 2's lost in Iraq: None
Abrams lost in Iraq: >85 (official number)

I imagine that there are more Abrams' serving than Chally's... I do not know how many tank-kills the Abrams has scored but I know that the Challenger made 12 in one firefight (all T-55's)

 

As far as I know, most of the tank losses were due to RPG's, and I don't think any Challengers have been hit by RPG's as yet. At least, I have not heard any reports of this happening.

Wasn't one Chally 2 destroyed by another Chally 2?

 

It was, but I believe that was in the first Coalition-Iraq war not the current one.

 

Ah, of course.

 

The figure for "losses" is deceiving. No Abrams has ever been destroyed by another tank (or antitank gun). Most all of the 85 "losses" are operational losses only i.e. sent back to depot level maintenace for repairs. Due to the large number of Abrams deployed in Iraq in hot areas it is inevitable that they will be damaged in greater numbers than Chally's which are deployed in smaller numbers and in more peaceful areas. Though there have been some Abrams damaged by RPGs it should be noted that Abrams have absorbed hundreds of hits from RPGs with little effect. No RPG has penetrated the "special" frontal armor and I know of only one case of a side penetration apparently by a 2 stage RPG that injured no one and did little damage to the tank. Several Abrams have been destroyed by other Abrams after fires were started and to prevent the vehicles from falling into hostile hands.
BTW One Challenger II has been lost to tank gunfire (though it was friendly fire).

 

No, it was in this Iraq conflict that it occurred.

 

I stand corrected.

 

To be accurate it is also true that no Challenger II has had it's Chobham armor penetrated. The loss to friendly fire was a case of a Hesh round striking the top near the open hatch and setting off the ready ammunition inside the turret IIRC. I think that we have a thread here somewhere discussing it.

 

Hi

Can I refer you to the current thread re Challenger 2 video.

Great video - a couple of key points -

One Challenger 2 survived (with damage only to optical systems) a sustained attack from -

"Continuous heavy machine gun fire, 8 (eight !) RPG hits and 1 hit by a full-on anti-tank missile"

Armour was not breached, none of the interior was compromised and no crew injured.


In the first Gulf War a Challenger 1 with more or less the same gun (Challenger 2's gun is an upgrade and therefore actually better) scored the longest hit and kill ever tank to tank in combat - 2.5 miles.

Mobility - hmmmm - read it somewhere - still digging.

Software - may take back what I said after seeing the vid - Challenger 2 seems pretty good.



PS The video says Challenger 2 is the best tank in the world so it must be right.

 

Have you read Thunder Run or any of the accounts of the Abrams armored units that took Baghdad in 2003? Some tanks took scores(or more) of hits from RPGs with no discernible effect.

 

Lots of us believe only the reports we want to believe... I've heard of some military reports questioning the Abrams's protection adequacy

While I consider the Abrams to be overall a better tank (mobility over armor), the Challenger seems to offer the best protection... Let's face it, one has never been lost; a mean feat for any tank

 

Any source for that?

One has been lost. Shot by another Challenger.

The Challenger 2 has never had its armour penetrated, while the Abrams has. However, this was the side armour, and the Challenger has never been in the firing line to the same extent as the Abrams. If you replaced all the Abrams in Iraq with Challengers, you'd probably have fairly similar statistics - a fair few disabled by RPGs, and a handful (one so far) with penetrated side armour.

 

Let's face it people-this match is a tie. Both Abrams and Chally 2 have their postitives and negatives.