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Create a Tank Game 2

Discussion in 'Forum Gaming' started by Oli, Sep 11, 2005.

  1. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Ready for round two gents? Here we go -
    Players are assigned countries as shown below, those who expressed a preference have, (I think got), got them.
    Team work is not mandatory, it is up to the individuals. Eg it could be a national project from Germany, or 3 separate companies bidding for the contract, or 1 company and a conglomerate.

    Player__________Country
    Zhukov_________Great Britain
    Ricky___________Germany
    Roel___________Germany
    Panzermeister___USSR
    Sovietsniper_____USSR
    CSP___________Germany
    Danyel_________USA

    And the information:

    December 1944
    Republic of Gemarian Free States, office of the Minister of National Security

    Preamble
    Once again the Loqatorian Forces are building up, this time they have expanded their air force with an emphasis on close air support. The decision has been taken to make a limited depth pre-emptive stike into Loqator as an indicator of our capabilities and desire for peace, therefore:

    We invite for tender submissions on a battle-field capable anti-aircraft vehicle which must satisfy the following:-

    Lead-in.
    Vehicle weight, size and overall performance are deliberately not specified - suitability for the task at hand is the only priority (having regard to the constraints of clauses 1 and 4a). Cost is not a primary driver provided the vehicle meets or exceeds the requirements below.

    Requirements.
    1) ability keep up with the main force of armoured vehicles and motorised/ mechanised infantry, or provide sufficient coverage for those units if the AA vehicle moves at a different pace (approximately 20 mph in contact and 30 mph or better moving to contact. The vehicle, if not capable of moving with the battle groups must be cheap enough to purchase in sufficient quantity to have "leapfrogging" elements (ie units in front of and behind the battle group) to maintain constant cover. This will depend upon range of the mounted weapon and movement speed.
    2) capability of engaging close air support aircraft at high speed (250 mph +) and low altitude (50 m) in open terrain
    3) capability of engaging dive-bombers before bomb release (high elevation) in open terrain and urban areas
    4) the aim of the strike is to sieze enemy conurbations near the border with large numbers of ground troops, therefore:
    4a) the proposed vehicle should be of a size and general mobility to operate (with infantry support) in urban areas
    4b) the ability to provide support fire for infantry assault would be a significant advantage
    4c) armour sufficient to negate infantry weapons is required, excluding infantry-held anti-tank weapons
    4d) roof armour is highly desirable but not an absolute requirement
    5) weapon capability
    5a) must be a guaranteed kill, provided the target is hit, against against Il-2, Typhoon and Ju 87 type targets
    5b) have a sufficient accuracy and/ or rate of fire to achieve the necessary hit
    5c) 3500m is the minimum acceptable effective range, ie targets must be engaged at least at this distance
    5d) 500m is the desirable minimum-useable range, ie if the system is incapable of engaging crossing/ approaching targets at this range it will be rejected - weapons mount may require a powered traverse to achieve target tracking, and/ or proximity-fused ammunition
    5e) the vehicle/ weapon system must carry sufficient ammunition for a minimum of four engagements, each of which will have a reasonable chance of bringing down one aircraft, eg 4 rounds for an 88mm does not constitute sufficient ammunition for 4 engagements within the terms of the specification. Vehicles that are large simply due to ammunition load will be considered only if the remainder of the design mitigates the large size. This point is not considered to be in contravention of the lead-in, a large vehicle will be accepted only if there are reasons other than ammunition stowage for its size.
    6) novel weapon solutions will be judged as normal systems - on their actual merits. There is no automatic disqualification for previously untried options/ configurations.

    Weapon type, size and number mounted is not specified, again suitability will be the decider, large-calibre weapons have a reduced rate of fire and reduced traverse rate, limiting effectiveness against low level high speed crossing/ approaching targets but will be accepted if it can be shown that the engagement envelope nullifies the previously-mentioned limitations, especially since a large calibre weapon will be effective in urban combat.

    Tenders should made at the earliest opportunity, with a demonstration/ concept validation vehicle available within three months. Desired production delivery to be a minimum of 10 vehicles per month for a minimum total of 200 vehicles (maximum purchase to be confirmed). First service delivery no later than November 1945.

    (I'm compressing development times here quite a bit because we're using bits of existing tanks, so anything that was available, or proposed to be available by the end of 45 is accepted)
     
  2. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    I think Germany would want this vehicle for themselves :p
     
  3. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    Sweet, AA tanks, my favorite! :grin:

    Britain AFV's are not exactly my specialty, but I do have a thirst for blood!
     
  4. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    Wait, are we possitive on the 3500 meter range requirement? Was that a typo?
     
  5. PanzerMeister

    PanzerMeister New Member

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    That's quite a lot for a 1945-era gun.
     
  6. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    3500 metres is the requirement = 3 1/2 klicks. A bofors was around
    http://riv.co.nz/rnza/hist/local/qf40mmaa.htm
    20 mm is considered by the RGFS MoNS as too small, since a 23 mm armed aircraft will be capable of opening up shortly after reaching this range, we want to hit it before it can line up on the target, rather than hit it while it's firing.
    Solutions that do match the requirement will be taken into consideration, and judged on overall effectiveness.
     
  7. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    Is this due Saturday or Sunday?

    "Please say Sunday. Please say Sunday."

    :grin:
     
  8. Canadian_Super_Patriot

    Canadian_Super_Patriot recruit

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    Me too , I haven't started yet :grin:
     
  9. sovietsniper

    sovietsniper New Member

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    PanzerMeisters been on holiday as of last night, i gotta do mine my myself :cry:
     
  10. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    40mm Mk I "Fly Swatter"

    In response to the Loqatorian build up, a pre-emptive strike to attack the enemy forces before they attack us. A battle capable AA tank was in need to protect the mechanized forces from the enemy air arm. ZhukCorp Unlimited has risen to the challange and has built a prototype, anti aircraft vehicle named the "Fly Swatter".

    Mk I Fly Swatter
    Armament
    Primary: Twin Bofors 40mm M36 Cannons (400 rounds)
    Secondary: .303 Bren MG (500 rounds)

    Armour
    Minimum: 20mm
    Maximum: 55mm (Turret, Hull Front)

    Power Plant
    Engine: Bedford Twin 6
    Horsepower: 350
    Rpm: 2200
    Speed: 30km/h on road, 20km/h off road
    Range: 350-400km

    "Fly Swatter"
    Weight in Tons: 30-35
    Length: 6.4m
    Width: 3.0m
    Height: 2.8m

    Hull: Modefied Cruiser Mk III hull (lengthened hull, lowered hull, armour added, wider tracks)

    Bofors M36
    Caliber: 40mm, 1.57"
    Rate of fire: 80-100 Rpm per gun
    Range: 7000 yards (maximum effective range)
    Ammo: AP, HE, Proximity, Time Fuse

    The Fly Swatter carries the powerful 40mm Bofors gun in a twin mount, making it capable of taking on any aircraft in the Loqatorian forces. It is also equipped with a .303 MG for anti-infantry work, but the 40mm guns can be depressed enough to support accompanying infantry. The main ammo for the 40mm is Proximity High Explosive, making it very effective against enemy aircraft, especially coupled with the 160+ rounds per minute, but standard HE and AP rounds are also carried. The gun is aimed with a standard cross-hair type sight, but the gunner is equipped with a powerful scope as well. Aiming is aided with the use of a predictor equipped on the guns.

    On the turret is a reinforced, Plexiglass cupola allowing the tank commander a quick and clear view of the skys. The Fly Swatter is also equipped with a radio systems allowing quick inter-crew response and for multi-unit cooperation against enemy aircraft. Target interception and observation is made easier with the Fly Swatter's electric turret.

    The Fly Swatter is capable of engaging enemy aircraft in forested areas, open ranges, and in and around urban areas. The armour is sufficent enought to protect the crew from all small-arm fire and larger caliber guns from some distance. The power plant allows the Fly Swatter to keep up with other mechanized forces.

    All in all, the Fly Swatter is more than capable to meet your countries requirements for the upcoming invasion of Loqatoria. All equipment mentioned before is standard, although a twin 57mm version is also being worked on at the moment, as well as an ammunition carrier version. If you choose to purchase the Fly Swatter, we guarantee that it will not fail the tasks it was designed for.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    T-16 FTAA (Fully Tracked Anti-Air)
    [​IMG]

    In response to the Gemarian request for a mobile, powerful Anti-Air vehicle we offer the T-16 FTAA. This fully tracked battle implement should be seen as adequate. Timely response to our offer could result in a single factory being fully tooled and prepared to meet orders by the beginning of next year.

    T-16 FTAA
    Armament
    Primary: Triple 37mm M1A2 Cannons

    Armor - Actual thickness to horizontal
    [​IMG]

    Construction: Welding
    Hull: RHA
    Turret: Cast

    Automotive
    Engine: Twin Cadillac Series 44T24; 16 cylinder (8/engine) 4 cycle, 90º vee gasoline
    Torque: Net: 480 ft-lb@1200rpm
    Gross: 560 ft-lb@1200rpm
    HP: Net: 220@3400rpm
    Gross: 296@3200rpm
    Transmission: Twin Hydramatic, 8 speeds forward, 4 reverse
    Steering: Controlled differential, steering levers
    Speed: 56kph on road
    Cruising range: ~160km on road

    Suspension
    Type: Torsion Bar
    Road Wheels: 5 individually sprung dual/track
    Return Rollers: 3 dual/track

    Dimensions
    Combat Weight: 21,400kg
    Length w/o guns: 503cm
    Height: 277cm
    Ground pressure: .793kg/cm²

    37mm M1A2 AA Cannon
    Caliber: 37 mm L/53.5
    Barrel weight: 165.0 kg
    Length with the carriage: 1.99 meters
    Length: 1.98 meters
    Rate of fire: 120 rounds per minute
    Muzzle velocity: 792 meters per second
    Range: 8 112 meters
    Ceiling: 5 669 meters

    Design

    Design started with the M24 Chaffee chassis right off the bat, seeing that this chassis not only could keep up with any armored formation, but it would allow a weapon to be deployed anywhere on short notice. The chassis itself is able to carry allot of weight with little impact to performance. With the slight modifications of removing the hull and AA MGs, as well as removing the gun shield and current armament and ammunition, the chassis was ready to accept almost any AA gun we could muster.

    Tests were tried with removing the turret, borrowing an open topped Turret from an M18 Hellcat and placing a 76.2mm AAA cannon in the turret. The thinking was that an open top would allow the crew to track enemy aircraft with greater ease. The 76.2mm gun, however, could not elevate high enough in the traditional mount to engage enemy aircraft. The gun also had too slow of a fire rate to suppress aircraft. We tried to mitigate this by adding a quad .50 caliber arrangement on the rear turret, but this was found unsatisfactory.

    It was decided to stick with the modified M24 Chaffee turret. Since one large caliber weapon proved inefficient, it was opted for several smaller caliber weapons. A triple mounting was devised and the 37mm M1A2 was a match made in heaven. This was arrangement offered excessive range, a high rate of fire, and a good accuracy rating for an AA gun.

    Primary armament found to be most effective was a high-explosive proximity charge projectile. This was capable of taking down test craft in a matter of seconds once the gunner opened fire. Another effective type of round is the High Explosive Incendiary Tracer (HEIT) rounds. These rounds proved capable of setting fire to buildings with a single quick burst.
     
  12. Danyel Phelps

    Danyel Phelps Active Member

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    Send yours to me, Zhukov, and i'll host it on my photobucket account and send you a private messege on how you post it.
     
  13. sovietsniper

    sovietsniper New Member

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    In the period of 1939-41 the german army blitzed its way thought europe using tanks and planes. Tradthional anti-aircraft guns proved to slow to keep up with the fall back of the allies.It was clear a mobill anti-aircraft weapon mounted on a tank was the way forward.

    The russians learned this in operathion barrbarossa and a call for a simuler tank from the republic of gemarian free states hastended the development.

    first a sutible weapon was found. the zp-39 soviet .37mm m-1939 was deemed a sutible weapon for the task.

    Role: Light Air Defense Gun Year Adopted: 1939 Weight: 2,100 kg (in firing order Armament:

    1 x 37mm Main Gun

    Weapon Range:
    6,700 meters (effective vertical)
    3,000 meters (maximum vertical)
    9,500 meters (maximum horizontal) Sustained Rate of Fire: 80 rnds per minute Muzzle Velocity: 960 meters per second (HVAP shell) Length (Traveling Order):
    Barrel Length: 6.036 meters
    2.729 meters Height (Traveling Order): 2.11 meters Width: (Traveling Order): 1.94 meters Total Traverse: 360 degrees Elevation: -5 to +85


    this was found to be a perfect anti-aircraft gun for the project. 2 were to be placed side by side and the ammo placed on the back of the chassis.

    the search for a chassis could only come up with 1 result. the versitle t-34 model would be used. its flexabillity and low cost means it could cover its fellow battle tanks from the front and rear in all condithions. however to make sufficent space the front machine gun will have to be removed. this will not be a promlem when dealing with infantry as

    a, it will be fast and versitile and

    b, the gun can fire low enouth to engage land targets.
     
  14. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Team Ricky and Roel will need a bit more time I'm afraid. As you probably know, Ricky does not have access to the internet during weekends, and he informed me that he could be too busy to attend the form at all until next week; therefore I have no final version of our design history nor do I have his approval of my artwork. Patience please!
     
  15. Canadian_Super_Patriot

    Canadian_Super_Patriot recruit

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    Is this due monday, al i've done is printed off a couple pics from the internet and decided an armament , no sketchs or specs as of yet.
     
  16. dave phpbb3

    dave phpbb3 New Member

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    Just as a favour i'll grant u till tuesday. then oli and I will make our final decsion
     
  17. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Thanks. You'll have our contestant by tuesday morning at the latest (since the rest of tuesday I will be away).
     
  18. Zhukov_2005

    Zhukov_2005 New Member

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    Thanks to the help form Danyel, I know have pictures!

    :grin:
     
  19. Oli

    Oli New Member

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    Will do the final judging on Wednesday morning, so all entries in by 10:30 UK time please.
    Oops, just read Dave's post.. Dave if you want to judge on Tuesday OK, but I won't be back until Wed.
     
  20. Roel

    Roel New Member

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    Team Germany (Ricky and Roel)

    3.7cm Flakzwilling 43 auf PzKpfw IV "Donnerwetter"


    In terms of product design, the tender from The Republic of Gemarian Free States came at exactly the right time for Germany. Since 1943, the increasing air superiority of her enemies had compelled her designers to develop increasingly effective mobile Anti-Aircraft Artillery, and all the lessons learned during this process – and more importantly the lessons learnt in combat – would provide valuable input to this design.

    The Flakpanzers already in German service were all investigated for the tender, but none fitted the bill – 20mm was considered ineffective by the Wehrmacht, and certainly did not fulfill the requirements of The Republic of Gemarian Free States. The Ostwind, with its 37mm Flak 36, was a far more formidable weapon, but the high turret with its open top was deemed unsuitable, and the single weapon gave a fairly low rate of fire. However, twin 37mm mounts had been under development in Germany under the express request of her Commander-in-Chief, and indeed a twin-37mm-armed turret was currently under development for the Pz.V Panther.

    At first, this seemed ideal for The Republic of Gemarian Free States, but it was soon realised that it was simply too big a vehicle, and so the designers looked instead at utilising the readily available and highly versatile Pz.IV chassis. However, simply adding the Panther AA turret to a Pz.IV hull degraded performance of the vehicle to unaceptable levels, and so a new turret was designed.

    This new turret utilised the new 37mm Flak 43, which was a development of the excellent Flak 36 designed for ease of production, and weighing significantly less. This, coupled with a simplified (and slightly smaller) 3-man turret design kept the weight of the new turret to within acceptable limits. The new turret allows the gun an elevation of -3 to +80 degrees, giving it good all-round coverage of both air and ground targets, and it was decided to allow the guns to be fired both together, giving a rate of fire of 500 rpm, or seperately to conserve ammunition. Sight was provided by several ranging devices and periscopes on the top and sides of the turret.

    It was decided to store 1,600 rounds of 37mm ammunition (200 8-round clips), giving enough for 187 seconds of fire (both guns at 250 rpm) or 375 seconds of fire (one gun at 250rpm). 40 rounds of Panzergranate 40 (A.P.C.R.)* capable of penetrating 156 mm of armour at 100m was carried in case the vehicle encountered armoured opponents. The hull mg of the Pz.IV was retained retained for self-defence, and was supplied with 1,200 rounds of ammunition.

    (*these 40 rounds were not included in the calculations for length of fire, as they are not intended to fulfil the vehicles primary role of Anti-Aircraft Artillery)

    The new Flakpanzer received the official name ‘Donnerwetter’ from an impressed OKH officer after viewing a trial firing session.

    Performance figures for the 37mm Flak 43:

    Name - 3.7 Flak 43
    Date - 1944
    Length, calibers - 89
    Weight, kg - 1247
    Shell Weight, kg - 0.566
    Muzzle Velocity, meters/sec - 820
    Rate of Fire, rpm - 250
    Max Horiz. Range, meters - 6584
    Ceiling, meters - 4785


    Performance figures for the Flakpanzer IV Donnerwetter:

    Model: Donnerwetter
    Weight: 25500kg
    Crew: 6 men
    Engine: Maybach HL 120 TR 112 / 12-cylinder / 272hp
    Speed: 38km/h
    Range: Road: 200kmCross-Country: 130km
    Capacity: 470 liters
    Lenght: 5.92m
    Width: 2.95m
    Height: 3.00m
    Armament: 37mm Flak 43 L/89, 1 x 7.92mm MG(1 x MG34 - hull)
    Ammo: 37mm - 1600 rounds, 7.92mm - 1200 rounds
    Armour (mm): Front Turret: 25 Front Superstructure: 80 Front Hull: 80 Side Turret: 25 Side Superstructure: 30 Side Hull: 30 Rear Turret: 25 Rear Superstructure: 20 Rear Hull: 20 Turret Top: 10 Superstructure Top / Bottom: 12 Hull Top / Bottom: 10 Gun Mantlet: 25

    Possible upgrades of this vehicle include a rearmament with twin Mk303 30mm MGs, or single or double 50mm AA gun(s).

    [​IMG]
     

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