Discussion in 'Forum Gaming' started by Oli, Oct 14, 2005.
Submissions to be posted here.
Will do the judging on Monday 17th (mid-day UK) if the entries are not in during the next hour or so.
My apologies, I would be ready with a passable entry later today but if monday is OK that would give me some more useful time...
Same here... my scanner is giving me grief. :evil:
Team France: Panzerman and Danyel Phelps
Following the specifications received from the RGFSAF-A for a light reconnaissance vehicle, we immediately looked at out our current December 1944 inventory and opted for the Panhard 201.
To fit the requirements, we then proceeded to extensively modify the car.
- The 4, central metal wheels were replaced by rubber ones that are in continuous contact with the ground. Hydraulic system removed.
- The chassis was lengthened to accommodate the additional 3 passangers in an additional compartment (a tight fit!).
- Engine power was raised from 85 to 120 horsepower, giving better mobility and meeting all speed requirements with ease, without dramatically increasing weight.
- A newly developed “long” muffler was added, reducing engine noise without increasing weight to a discernible degree.
- The 37 mm gun was replaced with a single 20 mm AA gun “Oerlikon”, selected for its light weight and ease of use.
- Extensive camouflage net attachments (bedsprings) were added, which also serve the purpose of pre-detonating shoulder fired missile systems.
- The hull was made watertight and a detachable snorkel added.
- Overall armor decreased to 30 mm, (including thick 80 mm front armor plate).
- Photographic equipment mounted in turret (high definition Leica camera)
- Upgraded radio
During tests, the vehicle was found to meet all the requirements posted by the RGFSAF-A. It is a quiet, mechanically sound, low-profile, and easily camouflaged vehicle, capable of light infantry support, forward recon and artillery observation!
Some basic stats:
Length: 580 cm
Height: 170 cm
Width: 200 cm
Running weight: 9750 kg
Armament: 20 mm cannon “Oerlikon”
Armor: 30 mm
Max power: 120 hp
Max speed (on-road): 60 mph +
Max speed (off-road): 30 mph +
**PICTURE TO BE ADDED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE**
when the scanner cooperates
Edit* Or not at all.
Grizzly MkI, Armoured Recon Vehicle
The RGFSAF-A, in their continuing battle against the oppresive Loquatorian (?) forces, have ordered a combat worthy reconnaissance vehicle. After many hours of research, trial and error, tests, and manufacture, Zhukorp Incorpatrated has devolped a vehicle worthy of the RGFSAF-A's military in the Grizzly Mk1.
The Grizzly Mk1 has been fined tuned using the latest and state of the art British military equipment. It is armed with a Molins Gun, a 6 pounder (57mm) automatic cannon capable of firing 55 rounds per minute at more than 800 metres per second. Furthermore, the Grizzly is equipped with a .50 and .303 machine gun in bow and aft sections respectively.
Regarding protection, the Grizzly sports sloped 25mm armour all around, giving it protection against small arms and some auto cannons at small distances. The Rolls-Royce V6 gasoline engine produces some 325hp, easily meeting the standards of the RGFSAS-A has required. The chassis is an entirely new desing, although somewhat based on the Ferret Armoured Car. The Grizzly can is also amphibous via propeller, and can traverse through water and an impressive 10mph.
The Grizzly carries 3 crew members: a driver, a gunner for the Molins Gun, and a commander/rear gunner. Accompyning the crew, room for two soldiers/officers/prisoners/etc postions is available, bringing the total personal storage at 5. There is also ample room a dismountable radio, and crew weapons, including a Piat anti tank launcher with ammuniton.
Zhukorp has also produced a command version, replacing the Molins Gun with a larger space to accomodate maps, and additional radio and communications equipment.
The Grizzly MkI armoured reconnaisance vehicle meets the standards set by the RGFSAS-A, in all areas, and, without doubt, will prove an effective and vital weapon in the RGFSAS-A arm.
1x57mm Molins Automatic Cannon (160 HE, 40 APDS rounds)
1x.50 Heavy Machine Gun (300 rounds)
1x.303 Bren Machine Gun (500 rounds)
Rate of Fire: 55 rounds per minute
Muzzle Velocity: 840 metres per second
Penetration @ 1000m: 90mm (with APDS)
Crew: 5 (Driver, Gunner, Commander, and 2 dismountable Soldiers)
Weight: 8 tons
Height: 1.5 metres
length: 3.5 metres
Engine: Rolls-Royce V6 @ 325hp
Speed: 65 mph/Road
35 mph/Off Road
Damn, I hate paint. :grin:
Team Germany (Ricky and Roel)
Panzerspähwagen P201 205(f) neuer Art
The Gemarian Requirement caused much consternation amongst the German design team, fo none of the existing German reconnaissance vehicles or armoured cars seemed to fit the bill. Even the SdKfz 222 which had proved invaluable with the Afrika Korps was deemed unsuitable, mostly due to its relatively tall sillouette. In desparation, the design team looked instead at the equipment that the Wehrmacht had captured during Fall Gelb, and found the French Panhard 201 armoured car. This was duly redesignated as the Panzerspahwagen P201 205(f), and work began on deveolping it to fit the Gemarian criteria.
Firstly, the two middle ‘auxiliary’ wheels were removed, as they were felt to be unneccessary, and replaced with one central axle, with a drive train from the engine, making it a 6x4 chassis.
Secondly, a number of modifications were made to the hull. The curved front armour plate was replaced with a straight, sloped piece. The hull behind the turret was completely changed, with essentially the addition of a ‘troop compartment’ with a roof hatch, and the engine was moved back slightly to accommodate this. The turret was also redesigned, with a wider turret ring, a ‘Rommelkiest’ for storing ammunition, a gun mantlet, and a 37mm Flak 43 gun with a coaxial MG42. A drum-fed MG34 was installed on a pintle mount for AA use, and this gun could be detached for use by the crew when dismounted.
A radio shelf was built into the rear compartment, and gun racks were provided on the wall facing the two personnel for the crew’s personal weapons, as well as a holding slot for a field radio for the dismounted recce team. This radio could be routed through the armoured car’s main radio when necessary.
It was quickly realised that this vehicle would not be a very good swimmer as it was relatively weighty for its size, so it was decided instead to give it deep wading ability. The entire hull was sealed to make it watertight, and two 2-metre snorkels were provided (one for the crew compartment and one for the engine), giving a wading depth of 3 metres 30cm. The snorkels are stowed along the side of the car (above the wheel arches) when not in use, and are interchangeable. For short underwater journeys only the engine snorkel is required. The snorkels can also be joined together to form one 4-metre long snorkel for the engine if a deeper body of water is encountered.
The modifications to the original Panhard 201 design obviously caused a moderate increase in weight, and the already inadequate top speed of 50 mph was further reduced. It was decided therefore to change to engine for a 220hp Tatra 103 12-cylinder engine from the Sd.Kfz.234/1 (8-Rad), giving a top speed of 110 km/h (68 mph).
The recce team would normally consist of the 2 men in the rear of the armoured car, plus the commander, leaving it mobile, or the 2 men in the rear of the armoured car only, leaving it mobile & combat-capable. The Panzerspahwagen P201 205(f ) also has a limited ‘APC’ capability, being able to transport 2 fully loaded infantrymen into battle, and operate effectively as an armoured car once they have dismounted.
Performance figures for the Panzerspahwagen P201 205(f)
Crew: 4 men
Engine: 220hp Tatra 103 12-cylinder engine
Height: 1.95 m
Armament: 1 x 37mm Flak 43 L/89, 2 x 7.92mm MG (1 x MG42 - coaxial, 1 x MG34 on pintle mount)
Ammo: 37mm - 200 rounds HE, plus 40 rounds of Panzergranate 40 (A.P.C.R.) - 1200 rounds of 7.92mm ammunition
Armour (mm): Front Turret: 30 Front Superstructure: 60 Front Hull: 60 Side Turret: 30 Side Superstructure: 30 Side Hull: 30 Rear Turret: 30 Rear Superstructure: 30 Rear Hull: 30 Turret Top: 10 Superstructure Top / Bottom: 12 Hull Top / Bottom: 10 Gun Mantlet: 60
Possible upgrades of this vehicle include a rearmament with the Mk303 30mm MG, or a heavy armoured car version with KwK 39/1 50mm gun and no crew compartment.
Performance figures for the 37mm Flak 43:
Name - 3.7 Flak 43
Date - 1944
Length, calibers - 89
Weight, kg - 1247
Shell Weight, kg - 0.566
Muzzle Velocity, meters/sec - 820
Rate of Fire, rpm - 250
Max Horiz. Range, meters - 6584
Ceiling, meters - 4785
LVT-42, Light Reconnaissance Tank "Betka" (beetle)
In 1941, when the Red Army was in deep trouble, Allies send them help in many aspects. Soviet Union received many kinds of vehicles including tanks. Mk. VIII Tetrarch was one of them. About 20 examples of 172 manufactured were shipped to Soviet Union. The Soviet engineers and tank crews quickly realized the potential of this tiny machine. It was fast and agile, like recon tanks should be. However, many faults and weaknesses were found, too. It was decided, that the performance should be improved and this model put in mass production in Soviet factories.
First of all, it was noticed that commander was too busy, for he had to load the gun. Secondly, armour thickness had to be improved. Thirdly, amphibious capability had to be added. These were the three main faults the Soviets discovered.
The first problem was to be solved by fitting a new, larger turret to accommodate one more crew member, the gunner/loader.
Also, the main armanent was found a little too ineffective. The vehicle could not mount a very much bigger gun, so a gun with higher ROF was sought. The Bofors 40mm AA gun was found very passing for the Betka. Soviets got the permission to license-make these guns in USSR.
Another pro of this gun was that fitted with a suitable sight, it could shoot aerial targets. In this new turret, the commander can freely observe and give orders (he has a cupola), gunner's job is to traverse and shoot, and loader loads the ammo combs into the magazine. The turret is electrically traversed and can be elevated 40 degrees and depressed 10 degrees. One ammo comb consist of 4 rounds, and the magazine can take 5 combs at a time.
The armour was thickened and sloped more for example in glacis plate.
The third problem was a bit tougher, but finally a solution was found. Some parts of the vehicle were replaced by wooden parts such as mud guards. This increased the flotation abilities. The hull has been made watertight. The tank can drive into the water, when the front hull lip has been elevated (it prevents waves to come inside the tank)and attach intake/exhaust tube to the engine compartment. The preparations take about 30 seconds and can be executed at speed (carefullness recommended). If wanted, a twin-propeller with rudders can be switched on pulling a buffet.
Due the slightly increased weight, more power was needed. A new muffler was fitted, the engine was adjusted and some new parts were fitted. 50 more hp was gained, with no cost to the sound. Also, a new gearbox was fitted, with a possibility to extract power to the propellers. The Meadows engine is basically very quiet, and can easily run with low-octane and low-quality Russian petrol.
The equipment required by the RGFSAF-A was sought for a bit. It was decided that the recce team (commander, gunner and loader) would carry a radio, to communicate with the driver who stays in the tank. This radio has a range of 1 500 meters and that's why it weighs only 5 kilograms. Many metal hooks were attached to the hull and turret to ease the embarking of the crew, to attach a camouflage net and the crew personal weapons (SAWs, SMGs, ARs; the radio is carried inside). The net is specially developed for Betka and is able to be attached in 30 seconds.
- lenght 4.34 m, width 2.35 m, height 2.05 m
- weight 8.900 kg + combat equipment some 500 kg
Bofors 40mm AA gun
ROF mechanically decreased to 60-80 rpm
range 4000 yards
ammo types HE and AP
AP round penetration 0 yards: 68 mm, 2000 yards: 30mm
DShK 12.7mm HMG, on the roof, operated by the commander
coaxially mounted DT 7.62mm MG
- armor: glacis 25mm @ 60, sides 15mm @ 0-30, turret front 30mm @ curved, turret sides 15mm @ 35, hull roof 5mm, bottom 5mm
- engine: Meadows MAT, V12, 215 hp @ 3 000 rpm
- power/weight ratio: 23hp/ton
road 80 km/h
terrain 50 km/h
water 6-8 km/h (depending on the current)
-floating ratio: about 430
The Soviet Army knows that RGFSAF-A pays much attention on the height of these competing vehicles, and their offer is propably the highest of all, though this is still a relatively small vehicle. This is why the Soviets hope that the buyer pays attention on the effectivity level of this vehicle compared to its size. Betka offers much better maneuvrability characteristics in terrain than the wheeled vehicles. Betka can accomplish not only the recon missions, but also artillery observation, infantry support, attack and defence, as well as AA missions. So what the Red Army really offers is a multipurpose light tank specialised in reconnaissance, Betka!
I am sorry that I have no pic of this vehicle (I don't have scanner, and I am no Paint-pro), but it's basically a Tetrarch hull + wider turret with long 40mm Bofors + large wooden mud guards + twin propellers with rudders in the rear.
Has anyone any idea of when CSP is likely to post his submission? If it's not soon (hour or so) I'll have to either judge and exclude him or leave it until Wednesday. Although Wed will give Danyel's team time to post their picture.
Comments? Objections either way?
I am happy to give time to let Danyel's team post a picture - it's not their fault that their scanner went iffy.
Got to go now. Submissions by Wednesday midday UK time. At the latest.
The scanner has been sent for reperation, and will not be back untill next week. I apologize.
Roel & Ricky, I just wanted so say you guys did a really nice job on that design.
Mine will be in later tonight.
I won't be submitting one , sorry , been to busy at school.
Sorry to hear that.
Oli, the forum is yours, I believe.
LRV-1 Ombre - low, fast, wading vehicle with the crew/ dismount requirements met. The camera is a nice touch. Would probably fit the French 25mm AA gun for automatic, larger-calibre fire. This vehicle is actually borderline for floating.
Grizzly - hmm, the Ferret is a 50s design, unless that remark was an "out-of-game" comment. Ferret is also 1.85 m tall so how does losing a small mg turret and fitting a 57mm autocannon (nice touch, BTW) make it lower? Initial calculations also indicate that it's roughly twice as dense as it should be to float, and it can't wade with an open top. Fitting all of the men inside would also appear to a problem given the small size.
Panzerspähwagen P201 205(f) neuer Art - what, no snappy name? :lol: Thoroughly workman-like design. Also borderline for floating. Doesn't quite meet the requirement for crewing. A stunning appearance though.
LVT-42 Betka - should be workable given the Russians' love and use of amphibious AFVs, but how many crew? There is no mention of the dismount team in the write up, and it would seem that there is no room for them in a Tetrarch.
After consideration the contract goes to Panzerman, for the LRV-1 Ombre. If judged purely on artwork I think Ricky and Roel would have walked away with all the competitions so far.
Sorry about your school work CSP, better luck next time.
Congratulations Panzerman, your turn.
Well, we did consider 'Newt', but Roel pointed out that this is "Wassersalamander" in German, which is not exactly snappy! :wink:
Well, Roel would! Why do you think I'm always on his team! :grin:
I'll go award Panzerman & Danyel (congrats btw! ) their prize...