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Cruisers and cruiser actions

Discussion in 'The War at Sea' started by corpcasselbury, Sep 20, 2004.

  1. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    The sleek, swift cruiser was one of the major elements of the surface fleets of all the navies which fought in WW2. A number of battles were fought by these ships, some of them of vital importance to a campaign. Here, then, is where we shall discuss these ships and the actions they fought.
     
  2. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Were the Galissonieres the best CL, ton for ton?
     
  3. canambridge

    canambridge Member

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    The Clevelands were the best CLs. 10,000 tons, 33 knots, 12 x 6in guns+ 12 x 5in guns.
     
  4. Castelot

    Castelot New Member

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    My source says that La Galissonière class were the best light cruisers of the war, but this source is french, so maybe there's some national pride in its's judgement.

    I think the Cleveland class was indeed superior, but they were far more recent too.And in war time, 5 years is really a lot....
     
  5. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    This almost sounds like an advert for cruisers, do you work in marketing? :D


    Even the best cruisers were still relatively frail ships. If they tried to punch out of their weight class things could go runny very, very fast. The fate of the Germany heavy BLUCHER is a good example. Taken out by old shore guns manned by elderly reservests.

    I was on HMS Belfast a few years ago and the displays banged on about the two or three inches of armour Belfast has. I could help thinking to myself 'yes but Scharnhorsts 11" shells would go through that like it was tissue paper'
     
  6. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    I consider Cleveland to be the best CL of the war, but she's also 50% larger than Galissonniere. Bigger and newer had better be better.
     
  7. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    No, I work in a plant where box springs are made. Cruisers have always fascinated me is all.

    BLUCHER was sunk largely because she was not only within close range of those shore batteries (not to mention the shore-based torpedo tubes as well), but she couldn't shoot back, due to the fact that many of the shells she carried in her magazines were of the wrong size! Just goes to show you that it pays to take the time to do a job right the first time...

    Yeah, BELFAST's armor wouldn't have helped her one bit had SCHARNHORST managed to hit her. I can understand the reason behind the displays bragging, though: They're trying to impress the people who visit the ship. Doing so will keep them, and others, coming back, which will, of course, keep the money they need to maintain the ship flowing in. BTW, AFAIK, there are no WW2 cruisers preserved anywhere in the USA, which is a crying shame. We do, however, have USS OLYMPIA, Admiral Dewey's flagship at Manila Bay in 1898, on display in her namesake city.
     
  8. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Sadly Britain did preserve any Battleships but we do have a very good selection of ships from different periods from the Mary Rose to two veterans of the Falklands War dotted about the country.

    There is still one old American cruiser in existence. A former American Armored Cruiser that was flogged off to Greece and is now a museum ship. Can't remember the name.
     
  9. Notmi

    Notmi New Member

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    I dont know about that cruiser but protected cruiser USS Olympia is a museum ship at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.
     
  10. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Ouch!

    Being able to shoot back probably wouldn't have saved BLUCHER. They tried to bluff their way past the shore fort but the gun crews merely let them get in close before they pulled the old 'Eat hot lead!' routine.

    Also knocking out shore guns is harder than you would expect. You literally have to score direct hits to knock out a gun. The British and French Navies attempt to force the Dardanelles in 1916 is an example of this
     
  11. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    The Greek armored cruiser is Averof. She's not American. The Greeks bought her from Italy. She had an extensive but quiet WWII record mostly in convoy escort.
    Blucher did return fire on the Norwegian defenses. If just didn't do her much good.
     
  12. Mutant Poodle

    Mutant Poodle New Member

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    33 Knots, thats fast!

    You can water ski behind that baby!
     
  13. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    Italian was it? Whoops the old memorys playing tricks.


    Britain does still have a WW1 cruiser and Veteran of Jutland in service. Its HMS Caroline berthed in Northern Ireland and is used for training reservests. It is apparently due to paid off in the next couple of years and sent down to Portmouth to join Victory, Warrior and the Mary Rose.
     
  14. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    Averof was built to the same basic design as Pisa and Amalfi, right at the tail end of the period when armored cruisers were a common export item. Two years later, the Greeks ordered Salamis from Germany, and two years after that, they assumed purchase for the American-built Fei Hung.
    Is Caroline the last surviving Jutland ship? I think I heard that somewhere.
     
  15. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    To the best of my knowledge yes.
     
  16. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    Perhaps, but I daresay that being able to shoot back would have made the ship's company feel a bit better about the situation. Nothing worse than being a sitting duck, taking heavy fire without being able to reply.
     
  17. Ebar

    Ebar New Member

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    I wouldn't feel too sorry for BLUCHER. I heard somewhere she was carrying the Gestapo element of the invasion force. I ask you could it have happened to a nicer bunch guys?
     
  18. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

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    This is true. But as a former sailor, I can empathise with someone who just got their ship shot out from under them. The ship's company, I mean, not the Gestapo types.
     
  19. Tiornu

    Tiornu Member

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    I suppose you could see this as an additional reason to feel sorry for Blucher.
     
  20. liang

    liang New Member

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    I didn't know there were so many excellent WWII cruiser designs.

    Ranking by main gun fire power
    1. US Pensacola (10 x 8 inch), US Portland (9 x 8 inch); Japan Nachi and Takao (10 x 8 inch)
    2. French Algerie, Hipper/Pinz Eugen, Italian Z-class, Japan Tone class: all have 8 x 8 inch guns

    Best air-defense firepower
    1. US Cleveland: 12 x 6 inch and 12 x 5 inch (ridiculous number of guns)
    2. British Edinburg (including the legendary Belfast): 12x6inch, 12x5 inch

    Speed]
    1. Japanese Nachi and Takao class: 35.5 knots; and Tone Class: 35 knots
    2. Cleveland, Portland, Pensacola, Hipper/Eugen, Z-class, Edinburg, Southhampton: all around 32 to 32.5 knots.
    3. Others: 30 to 31 knots

    Best treaty cruiser (10,000 tons or less, 8 inch guns max), sorry it excluded ships build during the war
    1. French Algerie (best all around of firepower armor and speed)
    2. Takao,Tone, Portland, Z-class
     

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