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Desert air combat

Discussion in 'Aircraft' started by GunSlinger86, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    The Typhoon and P-40 have that similar scoop in the front of the fuselage. I've seen footage of fighter-bombers in North Africa strafing and attacking that had that scoop. Seeing as the Desert campaign was considered secondary, would those fighters most likely have been P-40s or Typhoons? (Also, was there a Spitfire version that had that scoop?)
     
  2. Owen

    Owen O

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    View attachment 25348


    few pics on IWM
    [​IMG]
    AIRCRAFT OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE, 1939-1945: SUPERMARINE SPITFIRE.. © IWM (ME(RAF) 4397)IWM Non Commercial Licence

    Spitfire Mark VB(T), AB324, of No. 145 Squadron RAF, on a landing ground in the Western Desert. Following RAF service with Nos. 145, 92, 335 and 94 Squadrons, and with the Desert Air Force Communication Unit, AB324 was handed over to the Czech Air Force in 1946.

    [​IMG]
    ROYAL AIR FORCE OPERATIONS IN THE MIDDLE EAST AND NORTH AFRICA, 1939-1943.. © IWM (CM 2856)IWM Non Commercial Licence


    Two Supermarine Spitfire Mark VB(T)s, AB326 and AB345, running up their engines at Helwan, Egypt, shortly after their arrival from Takoradi, Gold Coast, on the West African Air Reinforcement Route. Both aircraft were immediately passed to No. 145 Squadron RAF, the first unit to be equipped with the Spitfire in the North African theatre.
     

    Attached Files:

  3. Owen

    Owen O

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    Hurricanes had them too.

    [​IMG]
    HURRICANE (HAWKER) MARK 2C. © IWM (CM 3654)IWM Non Commercial Licence
    Rolls Royce Merlin XX engine. Over the Western Desert. 94 Squadron RAF.




    [​IMG]
    AIRCRAFT OF THE ROYAL AIR FORCE 1939-1945: HAWKER HURRICANE.. © IWM (CM 3401)IWM Non Commercial Licence
    Tropicalised Hurricane Mark IIC, HL844 "The MacRobert Fighter - Sir Alasdair, one of three aircraft presented to Middle East Command by Lady Rachel MacRobert and named after her three sons, all of whom were killed flying in the early stages of the war. Seen here shortly after delivery to El Gamil, Egypt, for presentation to No. 94 Squadron RAF. The aircraft is carrying two 44-gallon ferry tanks.
     
  4. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    They look an awful lot like P-40s in those shots.
     
  5. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    The wings aren't as low on a P-40 as they are on Spitfires and Hurricanes, so I guess that's one way to tell them apart when the Spitfires and P-40s both have that scoop under the front.
     
  6. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, maybe the wings aren't lower. Does anyone know the max speed the P-40 ever reached with all the upgrades and modifications it received throughout its service in WWII?
     
  7. Owen

    Owen O

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  8. Owen

    Owen O

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  9. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    The Typhoon wasn't used in the Desert. The aircraft had been rushed into service in 1941 as a response to the FW190. There were lots of teething problems - such as stopping the tail from falling off. In 1942-43 the type was mainly used to intercept "tip and run " fighter bomber attacks on the south coast. It wasn't used as a fighter bomber until after the Desert campaign ended
     
  10. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    But there were Spitfires with that scoop under the front fuselage, correct?
     
  11. Owen

    Owen O

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  12. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think those Spitfire models or P-40s were more common or more abundant in the desert?
     
  13. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    The P-40 is one of my favorite fighters. Excellent dive speed and roll rate, good armor, tough, good firepower, and upgrade-able, as many different variants were made.
     
  14. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    The P-40 equipped 325th in Italy defeated Me-109s on numerous occasions as well. At low to medium altitude it could hold its own with its more modern contemporaries.
     
  15. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    You might want to look at the reason for the scoop on the P-40 as opposed to the scoop on the Spitfire...Hint, they are there for different reasons.
     
  16. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I posed the question just because in the footage I've seen it was kind of hard to tell which one was which when they show fighters flying and strafing in the desert.
     
  17. Sheldrake

    Sheldrake Member

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    The bulges under the nose in the Typhoon and P40 were to house radiators for oil and engine coolant
    [​IMG]
    and
    [​IMG]

    The superficially similar bulge under the nose of a Sptfire V Trop doesn't contain a radiator, but a large air filter to prevent dust from entering the engine, label 139 in the cutaway. The radiators for engine coolant are installed under the starboard wing see label 65
    [​IMG]
    and the radiator to cool engine oil under the port wing. Fig 144 - a different design in the variants after the Spit V but in the same place.)
    [​IMG]
     
  18. Martin Bull

    Martin Bull Acting Wg. Cdr

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    Spitfires and Hurricanes used in the Western Desert ( and some other Mediterranean locations such as Malta ) used a larger Vokes air filter which required a special airscoop/housing under the nose.

    I believe the Vokes company still exists today.....
     
  19. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    Yes, Vokes is still around.

    And the large Vokes filter was superseded by the smaller Aboukir filter.
    [​IMG]
     
  20. GunSlinger86

    GunSlinger86 Well-Known Member

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    Do you think the P-40s were more common than the scooped Spits?
     

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