F4F and others comparisons/ performance????

It was what it was . . .

The Royal Navy was to employ F4F types in combat long before the US Navy. The first FAA Martlet I’s (export F4F's, model G-36A's, originally earmarked for France but transferred to the Royal Navy after the collapse of France) were active almost a year before Pearl Harbor. First air-to-air victory was on 25 December 1940; flying out of Hatson, Lieut Carter and Sub-Lieut Parke from 804 Squadron (Lieut Comdr BHM Kendall, RN, commanding) intercepted a Ju 88 over Scapa Flow and shot it down near Loch Skail.

Later land based victories were scored in the Mediterranean Theater. On 28 September 1941, Sub-Lieut Walsh, 805 Squadron (Lieut Comdr AF Black, RN) operating out of Sidi Haneish shot down an Italian Fiat G-50. Walsh and Sub-Lieut Routley claimed a probable victory over a Savoia-Marchetti SM.79 on 11 November. By 28 December, 805 was operating out of Tobruk. On that day Sub-Lieut Griffin attacked four SM.79’s that were conducting a torpedo attack. He forced two of them to jettison their payloads and evade, shot down a third and was, in turn, shot down by the gunner of the fourth. 805 Squadron later accounted for a Ju 88 in February 1942 and two more SM.79s in July.

At sea, 802 Squadron (Lieut Comdr JM Wintour, RN), seemingly specialized in FW 200's. Operating off HMS Audacity escorting Convoy OG-74, the first encounter was early on 21 September 1941, when one was brought down under the combined attack of Sub-Lieut's Patterson and Fletcher. Later, in the early afternoon, a Ju 88 was driven off with damage. Shortly thereafter another section chased down a radar contact only to find the Lisbon to Azores Boeing 314 Clipper … they let it go. This was the interception where Sub-Lieut Brown was photographed by the Clipper’s pilot flying in formation with his section, with his Martlet inverted. On 8 November, now escorting Convoy OG-76, Lieut Comdr Wintour and Sub-Lieut Hutchinson attacked and shot down another 200, but, in the process, Wintour was killed by return fire. Later that day, Brown shot down a second FW 200 in a head-on pass and Sub-Lieut Lamb drove off a third.

At sea again with still another convoy, HG-76, 802 was now commanded by Lieut DCEF Gibson, DSC, RN. On 14 December, Sub-Lieut Fletcher was shot down and killed strafing surfaced U-131. His action, however, enabled three escorts to close range and take the submarine under fire until her crew was forced to abandon ship. On 19 December, in another head-on pass, Brown brought down his second FW 200, Lieut Comdr Sleigh, using Brown’s proven head-on method, shot down another, and Lamb, again, drove off a third with damage. Audacity was torpedoed by U-751 on 21 December and sank with heavy losses, including many pilots.

During the British invasion of Madagascar, Martlets from 881 Squadron (Lieut Comdr JC Cockburn, RN) off HMS Illustrious accounted for two French Potez 63's (one shared between Lieut Waller and Lieut Bird) and three Morane Saulnier 406C's (one to Lieut Tompkins, one shared between Waller and Sub-Lieut Lyon, and one shared between Waller and Tompkins) between 5 and 7 May 1942 with the loss of one of their own. The actual strength of Vichy air forces on the island, though, were meager; their combat aircraft strength consisted of but 17 MS 406s, of which only 11 were operational, and 6 Potez 63’s, with only 4 operational. Illustrious and HMS Indomitable, together, mustered totals of 20 Martlets, 13 Fulmars, 20 Swordfish, 6 Sea Hurricanes and 24 Albacore, so things were a bit lopsided.

On 7 August 1942, in a side-show effort to distract Japanese attentions from Guadalcanal in the Solomons, HMS Formidable allowed herself to be spotted by Japanese patrol reconnaissance in the Bay of Bengal. In the process, Sub-Lieuts Scott and Ballard, from 888 Squadron (Capt FDG Bird, RM) splashed a Kawanishi H6K 'Mavis' flying boa t piloted by Lt (jg) Yokoyama Tetsuo.

May was also a busy month the Mediterranean. On the 12th, during Operation Pedestal, six Martlets from 806 Squadron (Lieut Comdr JN Garnett, RN) on HMS Furious were part of a force rounded out with 30 Sea Hurricanes and 18 Fulmars which took on a mixed force of German and Italian attackers, numbering about 100, going after a Malta bound convoy. The Grummans pilots accounted for two SM.79s, one Ju 88 and one Reggianne Re.2000. One Martlet was lost.

In November 1942 came Operation Torch. 888 Squadron and 893 Squadron (Lieut RG French, RNVR) with a total of 24 F4F's were deployed on Formidable. Illustrious carried 882 Squadron (Lieut ILF Lowe, DSC, RN) with 18 F4F's.

On 8 November, Lieut Jeram, 888 Squadron, shot down a Bloch 174. On 9 November, Jeram shared another Ju 88 with Sub-Lieut Astin; meanwhile, a division of 882 Squadron brought down a He 111 and drove off, with damage, a Ju 88. With Jeram's victories, 888 Squadron was the only Allied squadron able to claim kills on German, Italian, Japanese, and Vichy opponents.

Unfortunately, on the 11th, a four-plane division from 893 made the same identification error as did VGF-27 on the 9th and shot down another RAF Hudson that they mis-identified as an Italian SM.84.

In July 1943, 881 Squadron (Lieut Comdr RA Bird, RN) and 890 Squadron (Lieut Comdr JW Sleigh, DSC, RN), while operating off Furious, shot down 3 Blohm and Voss BV 138 seaplanes. Available loss records show two BV-138 as probably falling prey to the Martlets, #310028 (Obltn Schumacher) on 8 July and #310098 (Uffz Feddersen) on 28 July, both from 2/406.

September 9th during Operation Avalanche saw 888 off Formidable score again, bringing down a Cantieri Z.506B float-plane. 842 Squadron (Lieut Comdr LR Tivy, RN), HMS Fencer, scored an FW 200, splashed by Sub-Lieut Fleishman-Allen, on 1 December to round out 1943.

1944 saw FAA F4F scores at about the same rate. On 12 February Convoy OS-67/KMS-41, protected by 881 Squadron (Lieut Comdr DRB Cosh, RCNVR) and 896 Squadron (Lieut Comdr LA Hordern, DSC, RNVR), HMS Pursuer, was attacked by seven He 177s from II.KG 40 carrying the Henshel Hs-293 guided missile. Defending F4Fs shot down a He 177, a snooping FW 200, and drove off the remaining He 177s.

Lieuts Dimes and Erickson, 811 Squadron (Lieut Comdr EB Morgan, RANVR), HMS Biter, shot down a Ju 290 on 16 February.

Providing escort for Convoy JW-58 were 819 Squadron (Lieut OAG Oxley, RN), HMS Activity, and 846 Squadron (Lieut Comdr RD Head, DSC, RN), HMS Tracker. 819’s Lieut Large and Sub-Lieut Yeo shared a Ju 88 on 30 March and between 31 March and 4 April the two squadrons together brought down three BV 138 's and three FW 200's with no losses. German records record a Ju 88D-1, #430563 (no crew noted) from 1(F)/22 as lost in this area on 30 March and three FW 200C’s from 3/KG 40 on 31 March, #62 (Obltn Klomp), #220 (Ofw Weyer), #224 (Uffz Göbel). There is only one corresponding BV 138 loss, for 1 April in this operating area, #311043 of 3(F)/130 (Obltn Kannengiesser).

On 3 April some 40 Martlets from Pursuer and Searcher flew flak suppression for Operation Tungsten, the raid on the Tirpitz. These included: from Pursuer, 881 Squadron and 896 Squadron and from HMS Searcher, 882 Squadron (Lieut Comdr EA Shaw, RN) and 898 Squadron (Lieut Comdr GR Henderson, DSC, RNVR).

While escorting Convoy RA-59 from Activity, following vectors for a nearby Swordfish, the team of Lieut Large and Sub-Lieut Yeo, 819 Squadron, on 1 May, scored again, bringing down BV 138 that was snooping their convoy.

The Pursuer and Searcher squadrons also supported Operation Anvil/Dragoon in August, but their activities are confined to patrolling, strikes, and air-to-ground support.

In November and December, new Wildcats (Grummans of the F4F family were by now called “Wildcat” instead of “Martlet” as the FAA had adopted the USN names for carrier aircraft) off HMS Nairana, 835 Squadron (Lieut Comdr FV Jones RNVR), and HMS Campania, 813 Squadron (Lieut Comdr SG Cooke, RNVR), were on Arctic convoy escort with Convoy JW-61A. On 3 November, Lieut Leamon and Sub-Lieut Buxton brought down a BV 138. A second BV 138 was shot down by 813 Sub-Lieuts Machin and Davis on the 13th. On the return trip, Sub-Lieut Gordon, of 835, bagged still another BV 138 on 12 December.

In Arctic convoy escort duty in January and February 1945, flying from Nairana, 835 Squadron, and from HMS Vindex, 813 Squadron, Wildcats accounted at least five more scores and probably nine in total. On the 6th, an 813 section shot down a Ju 88. On the 10th, another 813 section intercepted three more Ju 88's, claiming one probable and two damaged. On the 20th, 835's Sub-Lieut Gordon struck again, teaming with Sub-Lieut Blanco for a Ju 88. Another section on the other side of the convoy formation claimed a probable on another Ju 88. Luftwaffe losses reported in the area included: On 10 February, from 1/KG 26, 2 Ju 88A-17’s #300069 (Obltn Breu) and #801600 (Ltn Hühner) and from 2/KG 26, #884626 (Uffz Eigendorf); on 13 February, one BV 138 from 1/SAGr 130, #1004 (Ltn Sindermann); on 20 February, one Ju 188D-2 from 1(F)/120, # 230423 (Ofw Conradi) and 2 Ju 88A-17 from II/KG 26, #142060 (Fw Löckher) and #800631 (Uffz Allhoff).

On 26 March 1945, in a last action near Trondheim, during Operation Prefix, Wildcat VI's from 882 Squadron (Acting Lieut Comdr RA Bird RN) off Searcher, escorting a flight of HMS Queen’s 853 Squadron (Lieut Comdr JM Glaser, RN) Avengers along the coast, were jumped by a flight of eight III Gruppe JG 5 Me 109Gs. The Wildcats pilots claimed three of the Me 109Gs shot down and two damaged at a cost of one Wildcat damaged. Bird, who had previously shared in two victories with 881 Squadron (as noted above, ½ credit for a Potez 63 on 6 May 42 near Diego Suarez operating off Illustrious and ½ credit for a BV 138 on 8 July 1943 while operating off Furious), was credited with one 109 shot down and one damaged. This brought Bird’s wartime total to 2 victory credits and 2 for credits for damaged aircraft. Also credited individually for downing a 109 in this action was Sub-Lieut AF Womack. Sub-Lieut’s JAP Harrison and RF Moore split an additional credit for one more 109 plus and Harrison claimed an additional damaged. Credits appear to match losses in this action. As near as can be determined from available Luftwaffe loss lists, there were indeed three 109’s lost: #412398 (Fw Jaeger), #782139 (Uffz Rösch), and #782270 (Fw Dreisbach). Rösch and Dreisbach were rescued; Jaeger, who had survived an earlier crash on 16 February, was killed when his plane went down. One other 109 crashed, (pilot unknown) on landing, however the information available does not indicate if the crash was due to pilot error or from battle damage; damage to this plane was evaluated as 25%. Available Luftwaffe credits lists show no claims from this action.

 

And even if all of the Japanese pilots who were at Midway had been killed there, that would still only be a small dent in their cadre of trained airmen.

 

Perhaps but not all that small of dent in the carrier rated cadre. Of course that may not have been all that critical given the shortage of carriers.

 

From one of my earlier posts, anybodys thoughts on this?