Favourite/Best Assualt Rifle?

Plus, that way they largely negated the american advantages of artillery & air power. There were a couple of early battles where the VC/NVA attacked in an orthodox fashion & got creamed by US firepower. They learned fast!

 

well back to assult rifles.

what do you guys think of the G11?

 

The jungle worked to the guns advantage , even in open terrain you have to use the gun up close, because the bullets go all over the place when you shoot.

 

Any rifle's bullets will go all over the place if fired on fully automatic, I've seen an SA-80 fired from prone on fully automatic from only 10 yards and of the 7 rounds fired only the first 3 hit the man sized target! This is one reason why fully-automatic fire is highly over-rated.

The maximum effective range of the AKM is usually reckoned at being about 200-250 metres, the maximum effective range of a comparable 5.56mm rifle is usually reckoned at about 300-350 metres. Not a great deal in it since at anything over 200 metres you're likely to struggle to see and hit a target under anything other than range conditions anyway.

The jungle worked to the VC's advantage because in many respects it eased the training of soldiers. You don't have to worry about correcting for wind, range (Typically a rifle will be zeroed for a set range), or even zeroing the rifle to the individual soldier, at such close ranges it just didn't matter.

 

I've never seen one, but I understand the reason for going for caseless ammo was a faster automatic fire, which seems odd as the G-11 doesn't have a particularly remarkable cyclic rate. Does the weapon require any different cleaning from one firing a cased round? I'm just thinking if the entire round combusts surely deposits are going to be left in the breach and on the breach block.

 

i dont know much about it, other than like you said simon that it used caseless ammo.

 

The rate of fire is faster, but the gun can carry many more rounds (50?) in a much smaller package.

 

according to janes firearms recogniton guide it has a rate of fire of 600 rounds/min and holds 50 rounds

 

That's about what I thought, 600 rpm is not a remarkable cyclic rate for an assault rifle, in fact I think off the top of my head it's lower than the L85, M-16, AKM and AK74. But 50 rounds per magazine is very useful. Out of interest how many rounds are typically carried though?

When I trained on the L85 we were told not to put more than 28 rounds in a Radweigh-Greene magazine or 25 rounds in a Colt magazine (Just different manufacturers rather than anything particularly special about either) since it strained the magzine spring and led to stoppages (Naturally anyone who wound up with a Colt magazine swapped it as soon as they got the chance!). I'd imagine based on that, the G-11 probabaly typically has about 45 rounds or thereabouts? Or is it able to regularly carry full capacity?

 

The HK G11 actually had a cyclic rate of 450 rpm when on full-auto BUT - and this is the important bit - the normal mode of fire was a three-shot burst, during which it fired at 2,000 rpm. In burst fire, the barrel and action recoiled in the stock, and didn't hit the buffer until after the last shot had left the barrel. This meant that the burst was extremely accurate as the gun had not started to move under recoil until after the it was over.

The Russian AN-94 uses a similar idea (with conventional 5.45x39 ammo) but only fires a two-round burst.

If you're interested in assault rifles you should really take a look at Assault Rifle: the Development of the Modern Military Rifle and its Ammunition by Max Popenker and myself. Details of the book and how to get it on my website

While you're waiting for delivery, you could pass the time by reading this: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/Assault.htm

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

 

Wow, that is fast, everything I've read only gives the fully automatic rates. Thanks Tony, Christmas is coming and I may be able to talk Mrs T into purchasing a book this year... (Well, here's hoping! )

 

Some magazines tend to work bad if loaded fully. I'm not sure if this is case with G11.
And I can see why caseless ammunition is interesting: Weight. If you take a full round; case, bullet, primer and powder and weight them, you'll notice that case is usually by far heaviest of them. Getting rid of case -> lighter ammunition -> more ammunition can be carried by foot soldier.

Besides, case is source to quite high % of stoppages on full automatic weapons.

 

My favorite assault rifle is the one in my hands when I step in the sh*t!!

Still and all, while I was at least competent with the M16A2 (if I do say so meself!), I did a "fam fire" with a full auto AK47 once. Had I gone head to head with someone carrying that, I would have had no compunction about taking one from someone who didn't need it anymore, and using the enemy's ammunition supply against him.

Sadly, that's about all the experience I have with anyone else's weapons. :-?

 

If I remember Correctly, the Sten had this issue too - it had a 30-round mag but it was best to only put 28 bullets in.

Or am I parroting another WW2 myth?

 

re sa-80.

funny thing simon, i was told with the sa-80 a-2, one improvemnt over the a-1 was a new magazine, made for 32 rounds but you only put 30 in(colt i think).
And yes i found it accurate, relaible and well cool!
I prefered to the c-7, man the sight on that thing was a piece of crap, it kept losing its zero... But other than that it was pretty good.

 

I hear the G36C is something else, better than the G36K. The G36C looks like it was designed from the AK-74U, in that both are SMGs, yet carry rifle rounds. It's a great weapon either way.

Plus, it looks damn cool.

 

I used AK's derivates ( Bulgarian, Hungarian and my favorite Yugoslav M-72 LMG) during my 7 month service (and i'm still using one in reserve: Yugoslav M-70B2). Accuracy depends on manufacturer (Bulgarian has hard cromed barrel interior that is prone to wear but easier to clean). M-70 is resonably accurate up to 300m (M-72 up to 450m - shooting in standing position). Gun is idiot proof and can be completly striped and assembled (including fire corrector on the muzle and cleaning rod) PDQ ( after 5 years i needed 120 seconds and i didn't tried to be fast about it). Since most combat nowdays is done in closed enviroment (woods, built up areas) accuracy at longer ranges is not so important. 7,62 round is better in such combat (one can realy shoot trough trees and walls). One of 7,62 drawbacks is its power. If you hit someone round usualy goes right trouh him, but on the + side couses larger hydravlic shock to the body.

I recently saw comparison between M-16 and AK-47 on Discovery. It is impressive what AK round does to concrete or wooden block. M-16 was definitly not impresive on that regard.

 

True, but the 5.56mm is a much more lethal projectile, actually tumbling around inside the body inflicting all kinds of nasty wounds.

 

All pointed bullets will tumble in flesh - the rate at which they do it depends on a number of factors including their internal structure. Yugoslavian 7.62x39 bullets tumble more rapidly than Russian steel-cored ones, because their weight distribution is different.

A significant part of the lethality of the 5.56mm comes from the fact that the bullets break up into two large and many smaller fragments as they tumble, increasing the wound severity. This only happens at high impact velocities, however, so is a short-range effect - particularly when fired from carbines.

Tony Williams: Military gun and ammunition website and discussion forum

 

Are you sure you know what you're talking about? ( :lol: Joking, of course.)

Ok, I'll make it a point to not get shot by 5,56mm then!

A gun that has always fascinated me was the Belgian P90, but I have no idea on its classification: is it an Assualt Rifle or a Submachine Gun? The maximun range, from what I hear, is better than most SMG's and close to the range of some Assualt Rifles. The 5.7mm bullet looks and hits like a rifle round. Anyone know any different?