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Fritz Mann automatic pistol in 9mm Short(.380)--pictures wanted

Discussion in 'Small Arms and Edged Weapons' started by Terry D, Sep 17, 2017.

  1. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    Fritz Mann was a talented German firearms designer whose Suhl-based company produced some innovative pocket pistol designs between the wars. Mann specialized in what we would call sub-compacts today, and his guns were all notable for their tininess among other things. In the early 1920s he produced a very odd looking .25 auto which is often seen on the internet as a collector's item. Later in that decade he came out with a bigger piece which looked very like a Colt .25 but was actually chambered for either the .32 ACP or the .380 (9mm short). Every German commercial pistol got swept up into the Wehrmacht maw during the war and some of the later model Manns were picked up by GIs during the war and came to the States in barracks bags. About 13,000 were made, all but about 7% being in .32. I have seen some pictures of the .32, but none of the scarcer .380. Do any gun nuts here--I'm sorry, firearms scholars--have images of the .380 Mann or know where I could find same? Thanks.
     
  2. lwd

    lwd Ace

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    Did his company end up being bought out or merging with another? If so the company's historical department, if they have one, might be of help.
     
  3. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    If the advertisement is to be taken seriously, the 9mm Kurtz was identical to the 7.65/.32.

    Ad-Mann.jpg

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  4. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    I don't know what the hell is going on, but somehow or other I cannot reply to individual comments or include quotes. The system here will not let me do so.

    Anyway, this is a reply to Kodiak's last comment. Yes, I have read some things--including some from that unblinkingeye.com article you evidently read too--which suggest that the .32 and .380 versions were practically identical. An old reference from a Hatcher manual, however, suggests the contrary, and I would like to see an image or two of the .380 version to make certain.
     
  5. gtblackwell

    gtblackwell Well-Known Member Patron  

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  6. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    Thanks, gt, I have already tried all the search engines and not come up with any .380 Manns. I appreciate your willingness to help.
     
  7. George Patton

    George Patton Canadian Refugee

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    While flipping through a book tonight (2014 Standard Catalog of Firearms) I came across the entry for Fritz Mann. While there are no photos, the .32 model is described as having a 1.65" barrel and a 5 round magazine. The .380 model is described as having a 2.35" barrel and 5 round magazine. Given the differences in barrel length and cartridge size/resulting magazine size I would assume that the .380 model is a noticeably larger handgun.

    Hope this helps.

    Alan
     
  8. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    Thanks, Alan. I am a little puzzled as well. The difficulty is that the best article I have found about the Mann pistols suggests that the .32 and .380 versions were nearly the same; certainly the magazines were. See The Mann 7.65mm Pistol . There is a book in German about the Mann company and its guns and it looks as if I may have to get hold of it somehow to find my answers.
     
  9. Mannn 380

    Mannn 380 New Member

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    Terry D, Hi my name is Joe and I'm finally going through some of my dad's things he passed away a few years ago and he was a big-time collector of 25 ACP is 3280 P's 380s probably hit Collection was in the neighborhood of 50 to 75 firearms and Amicone Guy as well so I actually know the answer to your question and it's pretty simple actually. Whoever said that the 380 and 32 bit do you know the inventor of man with two rounds I have something like a half an inch makes no sense because they are nearly identical in height is 32 ACP in the 380, as you probably know. My dad well I guess me and Oans that they are 32 and 380 which is not what you asked about I am dictating as you might imagine but anyway they are also incredibly small and look like 25 ACP it but the man 7.65 is the one my dad was able to obtain at some point and it is identical in every dimension to the 9 mm short. The only difference is the barrel and presumably the corresponding recoil spring outside of the barrel although I'm not sure if that is correct so and I am going by memory I'm pretty sure in this actually may not be true it may be for the backyard by the way I dictate and Siri is an idiot so anyway I am not sure if they use separate magazines but if they do either with the man or the Bayard The 380 magazine holds five rounds of 380 and I believe six rounds of 7.65 MM but yet the 32 or 7.65 mag will hold only five 380s rather for 380s which is bizarre. I shot the thing today just in the house two shots into a phonebook and actually shoot very nicely and as you indicated it does look like a vest pocket model cold even when the right next to another I mean they're nearly identical in size maybe it's an out heavier and I made the mistake of taking it apart and although it doesn't seem incredibly complex to reassemble after resembling a Walther PP and a sour model 38H which takes about 10 seconds I just didn't want to be bothered so I'll take care of it tomorrow if you want me to send you a picture I will gladly do that I only joined this page because I was researching this issue to death because I am somewhat neurotic when I want the answer and I don't even recall where I got it but it certainly was not from somebody who saw something on Google it was one of a number of my dads old books written and maybe 1946 that sort of thing where it's probably pretty accurate and it dimensions the width and the height the length of the weight I believe also are nearly identical if not identical and interchangeable barrels so you would just swap the barrel out I don't know if that's recommended but that's the primary difference the barrel, I also noticed that I am responding to a post from last year or actually closer to year and a half but anyway that is the correct answer. Externally they are identical and internally different barrel which you wouldn't notice externally same recoil spring the only possible difference is internally within the magazine which are externally identical and possibly, I don't know if you've ever handled one but I have and with the ejector would be this spring for the flow back design is right there so it's difficult to really tell the difference between 7.65 and .9 mm as that may be a different but probably not. Feel free to reach back out to me if you have any other questions or if I can help and I'll probably because I'm not at the forums and stuff I'll give you my phone number if you want to give me a call and I will tell you if I know about it or don't or maybe were to go and look which would be me finally want to make that 7000 bucks about every aspect of the second world war, seriously but the gun stuff I kept guy myself I am also into guns but not really into the collectibility factor I like something that will have all that works that I can carry they can keep a lock box a different kind nightstand different kind that sort of thing. That said I am finding us our model 38H with SS markings on it in the car spun in coaster and a $200 receipt that my dad paid for that holster in 1995 to be kind of fascinating. I could go on with other examples of how I'm going to determine the value of this collection but I'm not selling it so it doesn't really matter. It would be kind of cool to say yeah that offer PP with the correct holster that would've been worn by a certain level of Officer in the German army in this campaign is worth about $2500 and that's the one I have that's cool to me but I'm not gonna get it printed and they have stuff maybe some of the cheaper stuff but not the nice stuff... anyway if you do you have any other questions as I said give me a call my number is area code 215-205-5257 and I'm giving you that because I'll probably never jump on this form again I just have knowledge in the specific area and was reading some of the things people were saying that we're just simply contrary to fact and it was confusing for you as it would be for me kind of like saying a 357 magnum doesn't have more power than at 380 ACP because of the same diameter but that would make no sense it if you know what I mean. Not bashing a guy who's trying to help with that eight no sense what he said
     
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  10. KodiakBeer

    KodiakBeer Member

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    Could you take some pictures of the Mann pistol?

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  11. Terry D

    Terry D Active Member

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    Thanks for posting. Yes, what you say tends to confirm what I've heard so far, namely that the 7.65 and 9k versions of the Mann are very similar externally though the different calibers were usually marked on the outside of the frame. That isn't so unusual, many pocket pistols have been made in both 7.65 and 9k versions with little or no visible difference--the Walther PPK is one such example, the Colt M1903/1908 Pocket Model another. The Mann Taschenpistole was never made in large numbers and the 9mm version is especially uncommon. As Kodiak says, any pictures you have would be welcome.
     
  12. Mannn 380

    Mannn 380 New Member

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    well they look very similar to the pictures I'm going to send which of her not original pictures or a finish is not the original rather; that said I made the mistake of disassembling it and after spending/wasting 20 to 30 minutes trying to reassemble it I got frustrated and tossed it in a box which is 5 feet away from me so I will take a few pictures and send it to you in a few minutes. If you want to assemble shot that can take anywhere from a couple days to a couple weeks until I Finally say screw it I'm just gonna put this damn thing back together take my time go slowly because there are only like five parts or six parts is pretty simple it's just a matter of needing a third hand or I should say seven fingers on one hand so everything is just in the right spot when you're reattaching the slide to the frame. Give me a few minutes please
     

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