Discussion in 'Forum Gaming' started by Man, Oct 22, 2005.
You guys know the drill... :wink:
British Entry (sorry, I couldn't leave it alone because the weight limit intrigued me, so I spent a couple of hours this weekend :lol: )
Vickers-Nuffield Cayman Mk.1 and Mk.2
The requirement from the Kaganevian Free States government calls for a self-propelled gun with a maximum weight of 20 tons. This was a stringent requirement and caused some consternation in the design office. The original proposal was for a stretched Universal/ Bren Carrier chassis carrying a 75 mm gun but it was considered that the L/C ratio (track length on ground to track centres) would militate against manoeuvre. This was followed by a look at the Vickers Medium Mk.II but it was felt that the suspension would not admit of achieving the required speed of 50+ kph. The decision was made to utilise the Cruiser Mk.III (A13) since the mechanical components were proven and the weight was in the right bracket. The problem remained with fitting the gun, a minimum requirement of 75 mm.
It was decided to move the engine forward and to one side to give sufficient space at the rear for a fighting compartment. The engine (a Liberty as used in the Centaur) was fitted longitudinally, rather than transversely, and the driver seated at the right. This gave a large space at the rear (over the already close-paired road wheels) for gun mounting. The power to weight ratio is 29.5 HP/ ton giving excellent agility and acceleration.
Since the requirement stated only that it was for a Self-Propelled Gun for use in defensive actions and did not specify the anti-tank or close-support role there are two versions of the Cayman. The weapons chosen were the 17 pr for anti-tank use and the standard 4.5” infantry howitzer (no longer in use with British forces - 35 lb shell, 7000 yards range) for close support (Cayman Mk.2). The same hull and gun shield is used for both variants.
Traverse for both weapons is 20 degrees to either side, with an elevation of 15 degrees (17 pr) or 50 degrees (4.5”) and a depression of 4 degrees (both weapons). In addition to the driver the gun crew is 3 men including the vehicle/ gun commander.
Both weapons are mounted on their original field carriage, minus shield and wheels, making mounting other options relatively easy.
The vehicle is low, aiding concealment for firing from ambush, and, although open-topped, has a gun shield to protect the crew. Maximum vehicle armour is 30 mm, minimum is 10 mm.
Combat Weight, 15500 kg, 15.26 tons (Mk.1)
395 HP Nuffield Liberty engine (29.5 HP/ ton)
Road speed 56 kph
Cross-country speed, 30 kph
Range 310 km
Length, Hull 5789 mm, O/all 6169 mm (Mk.1)
Width, 2540 mm
Height, top of gun shield 2000 mm, Top of Hull, 1486 mm
Ground Clearance, 342 mm
Fording Depth, 1197 mm (without preparation), 1350 mm maximum.
Ground pressure, 0.88 kg/ cm2 (12.5 lb/ square foot)
Armament, 17 pr anti-tank (Cayman Mk.1) or 4.5” (114.3 mm) (Cayman Mk.2) howitzer
Ammunition is 10 rounds ready (Mk.1 17 pr) and 25 rounds stowed, 7 ready (Mk.2 4.5” howitzer) and 18 stowed
We believe that the Cayman is a suitable vehicle to fulfil the requirements of the Kaganevian Free States, based as it is on existing technology, and provides a cost-effective solution to the specification, equalling or exceeding the parameters set forth therein.
Cayman Mk.1 17 pr
Cayman Mk.2 4.5 inch Infantry Howitzer
Type 99 "Ho-Chi II"
The Kaganevian Free States have submitted a contract for a self-propelled/tank-destroyer to suplement their armed forces for the inevitable conflict between the KFS and the foreign aggressors built up on the KFS borders. At first, the requirements turned us at Zhukcorp Japan (Inc.) off, but after our R&D team looked over our AFV inventory, we found that the prerequistes could be meet to produce an effective vehicle.
The Type 99 "Ho-Chi II" was designed using pieces already in our Japanese branch's warehouse, except the turret, which had to designed to fit around the gun. The chassis is that of the Type 3 "Chi-Nu", however, 15cm has been added to the width of each track. This ensures that the Type 99 will have no problem traversing through mud, yet is still in the width limit given by the KFS. The turret is fully traversable, which was not necessarily required, but an assest none-the-less. The three man crew consists of a driver, gunner, and loader/radio operator.
The Type 99 is armed with a Type 99 88mm AA gun (hence the name :wink:, and to prevent confusion, the gun will be called, henceforth, as the 88mm ), which fires a 4.5kg shell at an impressive 800m/s. The Type 99 carries 55 shells for the 88mm gun, of which 30 are armour piercing and 25 high-explosive.
The engine is a Mitsubishi Type 4, producing 400hp@1800rpm. This engine can propel the vehicle to on-road speeds up to 55kph, and 30kph off-road. Range for the Type 99 is 250km, but racks on the stern allow for extra fuel tanks to be carried.
As all Zhukcorp models, the Type 99 is equipped with a radio set allowing quick and convienent communication between the tank crew and/or supporting infantry/tanks/air planes.
Type 99 "Ho-Chi II"
Crew: 3 (Driver, Gunner, Loader/Radio Operatior)
Weight: 20 tons
Chassis: Modified Type 3 "Chi-Nu (sloped armour, widened tracks)
Max. Armour: 33mm (front)
Min. Armour: 10mm (top)
Trench Crossing Depth: 2.70m
Fording Depth: 1.0m
Engine: Mitsubishi Type 4
Top speed: 55km/h
Range: 250km (more with optional fuel tanks)
Type 99 88mm AA
Range: 10km (My source said 15km, but that seemed rather high)
Pentration @1000 yards: 125mm (AP round)
Ammunition carried: 30 Armour Piercing, 25 High-explosive
Germany's entry will be posted as soon as the drawings are complete.
Team Germany (Ricky and Roel)
Panzerjäger IV/71 "Eisbär"
The Kaganevian design brief was met with relief by the German design team, for they already had a vehicle that seemed to fit the bill – the Panzerjäger Nashorn. It’s gun was certainly suitable. However, a closer look showed that it had the following problems – it was 5 tons overweight, 8 km/h too slow and it was open-topped, which made it vulnerable to the counter-battery fire that the SU-85 could provide to the UES forces. Having a closed crew compartment was also felt to be a neccessity for the rather cold environment that the vehicle was expected to operate in.
The question was how to add an armoured roof to the vehicle while at the same time making the vehicle lighter and adding speed. The armour could not be made any thinner, as this would compromise its ability to stop shrapnel. The best solution was to make a smaller crew compartment.
To achieve this the gun mount was moved back by 70cm – to accommodate the shift in the weight distribution, the engine was moved forward by a proportional amount. The crew compartment was redesigned, with a 10-mm thick roof and a large set of double-doors at the rear.
Obviously the decrease in the crew compartment placed certain constraints on the vehicle, and it was decided that due to this (and a desire to save weight) that the bulk of the ammunition would be transported in a purpose-built two-wheeled carriage that could be towed behind the Panzerjäger. These carriages were designed so that multiple examples could be towed by each Panzerjäger, thus eliminating the need for a dedicated ammunition carrying vehicle. Each carriage is constructed of 10mm steel, to provide protection for the ammunition, and carries 60 rounds of ammunition in waterproof compartments. 18 rounds are carried internally by the Panzerjäger as ‘ready use’ ammunition, although in normal firing drill the ammunition is taken directly from the trailer, and passed in through the rear doors.
If the Kaganevian Army does not approve of the ammunition trailer, then Germany is willing to suggest a practical solution that has worked well for them – converting a Panzerjäger into an ammunition carrier by simply deleting the gun and adding ammunition racks.
Despite the addition of a roof, the changes made actually reduced the overall vehicle weight to just under the 20 ton limit, a reduction that still left it slightly under the speed requirement. To combat this, a new engine, the Maybach HL 100 which was developed for the projected next genaration of standardised AFVs, was fitted. This engine developed 400hp, which gave the vehicle a comfortable excess of power, meaning that even when pulling two trailers of ammunition on tests it topped 90km/h.
During tests, a fording depth of 1.2 metres was established.
In view of it’s powerful punch, fast speed and the climate it is intended to fight in, it was decided to officially christen the vehicle the Panzerjäger Eisbär.
Possible upgrades include replacing the 88mm Pak 43/1 L/71 with a 150mm sFH 18/1 L/30 to create a fire support vehicle.
Specifications for the Panzerjäger Eisbär
Crew: 4-5 men
Engine: Maybach HL 100 / 400hp
Speed: Road: 95km/hCross-Country: 28-35km/h
Range: Road: 260kmCross-Country: 130km
Fuel Capacity: 470 litres
Lenght: 7.74m (with the gun)
Armament: 88mm Pak 43/1 L/71
Ammo: 88mm – 18 rounds internally, 60 rounds in the external carriage
Armor (mm/angle): Front Hull: 30/20 Front Superstructure: 10/37 Side Hull: 20/0 Side Superstructure: 10/16 Rear Hull: 20/10 Rear Superstructure: 10/10 Hull Top / Bottom: 15/90 Gun Shield: 10/37
Specifications for the 88mm Pak 43/1 L/71
Penetration of Armor Plate at 30 degrees from Vertical.
100m: A 203mm B 237mm
500m: A 185mm B 217mm
1000m: A 165mm B 193mm
1500m: A 148mm B 171mm
2000m: A 132mm B 153mm
A = Pzgr.39 (APCBC)
B = Pzgr.40/43 (APCR)
[Self-deleted, double post]
Beautiful designs and (mostly) fitting with the specs, all three! Shall come to a verdict soon.
-- The Verdict -
Right off the bat, all of the three vehicles fill the specifications, except Germany, who has posted a slightly obese design.
Britain: Lowest weight of the three by considerable margin, which is a big plus. Open roof opens for better sight and decreased crew comfort. Weather is survivable, with adequate reindeer skins and tarpaulin covers, but still uncomfortable. Longest range and lowest profile. An excellently presented design as well, with all specs.
Japan: Good weather protection, excellent gun, wide tracks - all specifications met! I am impressed
Germany: All specifications met, except weight which was over the limit - to an ignorable degree. Anything over 20500 kilos woud have been disqualified. Excellent speed, on road and cross country. Superior gun. All other specs met.
Conclusion: Germany wins, its superior gun being key.
Parting words: All three of the designs are excellent and meet specifications. Germany had the advantage all along with the 88 mm L/71. Oli's chassis met my mental image of the winner perfectly. Zhukov had an all-over badass design, especially coming from a nation with arguably. limited AFV capability. Great job, all of you - and looking forward to play again!
Sadly we will not get our prizes, as the new improved Forum won't let us, but hey.
One little point -
the design brief says 20 tons max weight.
The Eisbar is 20150kg = 19.8 tons
However, I will not protest too hard as that is an optimistic guesstimate! :grin:
Congradulations Roel & Ricky! That is indeed a nice design, and an impressive speed as well.
Holy @#$% Zhukov that vehicle of yours is an honorable mention.
The only reason we won was the gun.
Dang but this competition is getting close these days...
Danyel, is that a faint sign of a compliment I detect in that sentence?
J/k, I'm more surprised at this than you guys, I'm sure! :grin:
Lets get started with the next game!
Congratulations Ricky and Roel. Well done.
Just waiting for Roel to discover that we won and to OK the Game 6 presentation...
Ricky and I are working on some game requirements worthy of your time.
Yes, but before this one, we were that competition... :wink: