Discussion in 'Forum Gaming' started by Ricky, Nov 2, 2005.
Please post your design tenders for consideration by the Palethaonian delegation here.
Verger Infantry Support Self-propelled Gun
In response to the Palethaon requirement for an infantrysupport/ assault gun we offer the Verger. Based on theA13 cruiser hull and suspension the vehicle has a fixedsuperstructure, extensive upgrading of armour and carriesa crew of five.
The standard vehicle has a 25 pounder (88 mm) main gunin a ball mount, but has optional variants of 18 pounder(84 mm), for reduced cost, 3.7 inch infantry howitzer(94 mm, reduced cost, range and no anti-tank capability),or 6 pounder (57 mm) anti-tank gun.
Additional armament consists of a hull-mounted mg (used bythe fifth crew member), a rear-mounted mg, (commander orloader use), and up to three Bren guns may be mounted onthe hull roof on hatch pintle mounts. Pistol ports are provided,two to each side.
While not as large a calibre as some nations may offer the25 pounder has a proven record and also an effective anti-tankround, especially considering it is likely to be used as such onlyat short ranges.
Initial doubts as to the ability to fulfil this contract swiftly fadedafter the choice was made to use a light vehicle and uparmour it.
The hull nose has 85 mm of armour added (vertical), the glacis 80 mm (64 degrees from vertical) and the front of the superstructure is 95 mm at 30 degrees from vertical – all sufficient to prevent penetration by a 6 pounder APCBC round (87 mm at 30 degrees from vertical). The superstructure roof is 10 mm, and the sides are 50 mm (vertical) and 15 mm (30 degrees).
The vehicle retains the original engine (340 HP), but with reversed wheel spacing to put the more closely-spaced pair of road wheels under the heavier superstructure at the front.
Due to the basic lightnes of the vehicle adding additional armour is easily accomplished, as is upgrading the engine to the later 390 HP type.
Ammunition stowage is 66 rounds of 25 pounder ammunition in normal condition (racked) and provision/ space is available for a further 30 rounds under the commander's
seat and to the sides.
Weight: 16.7 tons/ 16964 kg
Size: see drawing
Speed: 46.5 kph/ 24 mph
Ground Pressure: 0.81 kg/ sq. cm/ 11.52 lbs/ sq. in
Ground Clearance: 342 mm/ 13½ inches
Fording Depth: 1374 mm/ 54 inches (without preparation)
Maintaining the tradition of naming self-propelled guns from ecclesiastical ranks, it was initially feared that the Verger would be given the obvious nickname, but proved
so effective in troop trials that it was dubbed the “Fossarian”: a clergyman moonlighting as a gravedigger – enemy graves. Small, cheap and nimble (20 HP/ tonne) the
Verger is unequalled
in its role and should prove to a cost-effective solution to Palethaon’s needs.
Oli note: this one took a bit of work - I ended up drawing the thing out full size in a CAD package, measured the added areas of armour and then calculated the weights.
Type 02 "Omotai-Ho"
After many long nights working over the requirements for Palethaon's order, we here at Zhukorp Japan (Inc.) believe we have developed an infantry support tank that will leave no doubts about its effectiveness.
The newest AFV developed by our team is the Type 02 "Omotai-Ho", or Heavy Self-Propelled Gun. The chassis is that of the 16.2 ton Type 2 "Hoi" infantry support tank. The tracks and the chassis have been widen by 15cm and 20cm respectively. This lowers the overall ground pressure of the Omotai-Ho and increases its effectiveness in muddy terrain. The turret, however, was designed from scratch, so that the desired gun could be installed and to provide extra protection to the crew through sloped armour. To deal with the enemy's QF 6-pounders, frontal armour ranges from from 89mm (lower front hull) to 100mm (front gun turret, glacis) in thickness.
The Type 02 is armed with a short-barreled, originally naval 12 cm (4.7") cannon in a full 360 degree traversable turret. The short-barreled 120mm gun can lob a 29lbs high-explosive shell 5,800 meters. Consequently, the short barrel length of the gun only allows a maximum muzzel velocity of 290 meters/second. However, the low velocity of the gun is suitable for the role the Type 02 has been designed for: SPG/Infantry Support Vehicle. Ample room is provided in the rear and sides of the turret for storage of up to 70 high-explosive 120mm shells. For secondary armaments, a coaxial and cupola mounted 7.7mm Type 92 heavy machine gun has been provided. In addition, the Type 02 features an anti-infantry system yet to be seen on a Japanese tank. Much like the German Nahverteidigungswaffe, the Type 02 is fitted with two "8-Packs", fitted on either side of the turret, and each containing eight smoke grenades of the same 50mm caliber as the Japanese Type 10 "Knee-Mortar". The grenades are fired from inside the tank, using a chain attached to the grenade pin, so when the chain is pulled and the pin is removed, the grenade fires. Range is 150m, although it is designed for close ranges to provide concealment. For safety from enemy fire, the 8 packs are armoured against small arms and nearby explosions.
The powerplant of the Type 02 is a Type 100 Misubishi V12 engine. The Type 100 produces around 240hp, ableling a top speed of 30km/h.
Type 02 "Omotai-Ho"
Combat Weight: 28 tons
Crew: 4- Driver, Loader, Gunner, Commander/Assistant Gunner
Length: 5.5 meters
Width: 2.9 meters
Height: 3 meters (without cupola MG)
Armour: Max- 100mm (Glacis, front hull and turret), Min- 10mm (top, rear)
Fording Depth: 2.5 meters
Ground Pressure: 13.4 psi
12cm Short-Barreled Gun
Weight of Shell: 29lbs
Range: 5,800 meters
Muzzel Velocity: 290m/s, 951f/s
Rate of Fire: 10 rounds/minute
Barrel Elevation: -15 to 30
Rounds of Ammo Carried: 70 High-Explosive Shells
Traversable Turret: Yes
Type 92 7.7mm "Woodpecker" Heavy Machine Gun:
1xcoaxial (1000 carried rounds), 1xcupola (500 carried rounds)
Rate of Fire: 550 rounds/minute
8x Type 10 Grenade Discharger
Rounds carried: 2x8 rounds ready for firing, 2x8 inside
Type 100 Mitsubishi V12
Horsepower Produced: 240@2000rpm
Power-Weight Ratio: 9.0hp/ton
Thanks Oli, you had me thinking today was the due date so I dropped everything and scrambled to get this thing done, only to find out we still have 5 days!
Ummm, sorry Zhukov - I have far too much time on my hands, and nothing else to do :lol:
I'm sorry, but I can't get my contestant in before Friday. This is because of loads of schoolwork. :cry:
The design teams for the USA, CCCP and Germany are reminded that the deadline is tomorrow (Wednesday).
I'm aware of that.
Sorry, I hadn't actually seen your post when I posted my message...
I'll go check with Roel...
Friday is fine, but let's not have to postpone it again.
Right, people, entries have to be in today, preferrably before 5 PM GMT which is when Ricky will lose his access to the internet! That's an hour and a half...
What's the story if no one posts their designs before this time? If need be, I'm sure I can live with waiting a few more days.
I was looking forward to seeing 5 designs on this one.
PTT-42, Infantry support tank "Komar" (Fly)
The Red Army has a long experience of using tanks as a support for infantry. Yet, they don't have a tank especially made for infantry support. But now, very first of its kind has been designed: PTT-42, Infantry support tank, nick-named Komar or Fly.
The Soviet engineers decided that firepower should be the main advantage of PTT-42. However, there shouldn't be too much new design work, so the original gun F-34 76.2 mm L/41 Tank Gun was retained as main armament; it lacks the HE power of bigger guns but on the contrary it has a great rate of fire. After all, time was against Palethaon. Also, a ATO-42 flamethrower was fitted on the side of the gun and a ShVAK 20mm machine cannon was mounted co-axially with gun. These additional weapons boost PTT-42's infantry fighting capabilities tremendously. Commander and loader have a 14.5 mm KPVT machine gun on the turret roof in their control. Commander's KPVT is also suitable for engaging aerial targets. There's a DT MG co-axially mounted in the turret.
The crew has been reduced to 4. The radio is now operated bu the commander. The radist's position is now occupied by the flamethrower's fuel tank.
The turret armour has been increased to 90 mm @ curved with bolt-on armour. The frontal sector can now withstand APCBC of the 6-pounder. Also, the front mud guards have been up-armoured to sustain some kind of fire for the protection of tracks.
The gearbox has been calibrated to ease the driving and to suit the slow speeds in the IS-role.
Weight: about 30 tons
Measurements: same as T-34
Engine: V-2, 500 hp @ 2,000 rpm
Power-to-weight: 16.67 hp/ton
-main: F-34 76.2mm L/41
-secondary: ATO-42 flamethrower, 20mm ShVAK, 1 DT + 2 KPVT
Armor: glacis 45 @ 60, turret front 90 @ curved, sides 45 @ 30-45
Ground pressure: 0.80 kg / sq. cm
Looks like a T-34 with a few more tubes beside the gun, and some bolt-on armour.
Well, I'm afraid I am so curious about the entries of the US and Germany that I'm prepared to wait a little longer. Monday at the very latest will be the posting date. Remember, you've been given two weeks already, which is more than for any previous game.
GRENIDIER SUPPORT PANZER 1 “cheetah”
The German Reich has received a plea for help from Palethaon, our kamarads in arms against the Slavic races who threaten our Aryan brotherhood. However the forces of the fatherland are committed to the eastern crusade and are unable to spare forces for the coming strike against Tudyera. However we have giving the task of aiding the attack to our scientists, designers and engineers. The result of this is the grenadier support panzer 1 the cheetah.
First we had to choose a suitable base for the tank, after several days of debate the team narrowed the possibilities.
1. The chassis of the panzerkampfwagen 1 was considered. It was fast, agile and capable of keeping up with a swift infantry assault. However there is only sufficient space for 2 crewmen and a small amount of ammo, there is also the problem of a insufficient 100hp engine using up a large amount of fuel. Both these charirtistics meaning instability of long periods in combat.
2. The next option was the frame of the panzer 3. The main bonus of this is that it has already been utilised on the stug 3, a highly successful self propelled assault gun. It is also very cheap. This option is to be considered.
3. The 3rd option is the basis of the hetzer jagdpanzer, known as the “badger”. This allows for a small silhouette agility and speed. It was also very strong defensively and could carry powerful weapons.
Eventually after a lot of debate the design team choose the panzer 3 model this is for a number of reasons.
• The attack on the Slavs will come soon, the panzer 3 chassis is available on mass and can easily be produced compared to the complicated hetzer chassis.
• The hetzers main bonus point is that it is able to carry powerful anti-tank weaponry. However the cheetah will not come into contact with enemy tanks.
• Using current technology the hetzer will be extremely unreliable
As with the chassis there were 2 options for the gun
1. The PaK 38 (50 mm). Although this gun does not meet the 75mm requested, it has a proven ability for destruction and can fire AP, HE and HEAT shells
2. The flak 36 (88 mm) this has a proven ability for killing enemy tanks and can be used in its original AA role.
The cheetah has now been designed. It incorporates the panzer 3 chassis armed with a powerful PaK 38 (50 mm) gun. It is capable of taking out all expected enemy defensives and with bolt-on armour able of talking punishment
Sorry it isnt very good and late but iv been sick and my computers been down.sorry
Go ahead and judge, Roel.
I blew it for America: We put together a design in a rush before I had to leave for an extended period of time, and fine-tuned the vehicle when I returned just in time for us to be reminded that we breached the weight limit.
For the record, this shows no inability of my partner, but rather my failure to keep the 30 ton weight limit in mind.
There is no American chassis that will support a 75mm (much less a 105mm, like we planned) with the kind of protection needed while remaining under the 30 ton weight mark. All possible chassis are in the 27-30 ton range already, and the addition of frontal armor capable of defeating the 6pdr (especially taking into account American RHA and Cast armor flaws at this date, meaning we would have had to use double what Britain used to achieve the same level of protection) would put us well over the mark.
Our only option would be a radical (bordering on nonsensical) complete revamp of a given chassis on scales which just wouldn't be feasible.
I'm sorry to hear that.
I will wait for Ricky's co-judgment, so the game will be judged on monday.
Evaluation report, Palethaonian Delegation for Licensing Foreign Military Equipment
Oli: the design is good, but with a glance at the requirements it is also a good example of wasted potential. There could have been a turret on there easily within weight limits, and additional armour wouldn't have been a problem either. Even though the vehicle meets all requirements, it could have been so much more.
Zhukov: good design, good powerful gun, turreted (I promised this would count as a plus and I do consider it a plus). Downsides may be a lack of ammunition storage (no AP rounds carried at all), but generally this one suits Palethaon very well.
Panzermeister: a good general design using slope instead of armour thickness to achieve the required protection, saving on weight. However, the turret of the 1942 T-34 is cramped already; adding all that secondary armament will make it unbearably cramped and frankly it sounds unrealistic that this vehicle should be able to carry all that weaponry in a single small turret at all.
Sovietsniper: this one would have immense potential as a kind of upgraded StuG III, but unfortunately you chose a light AT gun instead of a heavy HE gun. This would serve different purposes very well but it is really HE impact that my country is looking for.
Weapon of choice
After long deliberations and comparisons the Palethaonian government has decided that the vehicle provided by Zhucorp Japan Inc. suits our requirements most. It provides great firepower coupled with a traversible turret, additional weaponry, and thick armour, while staying within weight limits.
Thanks all for contributing - and congratulations, Zhukov_2005!
Congratulations Zhukov. :lol: Well done.
Right on. Sadly, this is probably going to be the most excitement I get all day!
Thank you Oli, your design was extremely well presented and had me worried. :grin:
Give me a few hours and I'll post Game 7 up.