Hello all....I recently read where one of the war aims of Germany was to create a type of pincer (Russia from the north and Africa from the south) with the capture of the Mid East oil fields as the goal. It got me to wondering if German High Command had pre war plans based on different scenarios. I am familiar with The US Army/Navy rainbow plans and was wondering if other countries, specifically Germany, had the same. I am not talking about ideological but strategical aims. I know Germany had the Schlieffen Plan for WW 1. Did that carry over for WW 2? When Hitler decided to attack Russia was the High Command aware that that was a possibility. Thanks. John
Yes, but by 1941 things had moved so rapidly that pre-war plans had little remaining value. Most of the pre war plans had involved the various scenarios & dynamics of central Europe, Germany, Poland, Austria, Italy, France etc. By mid 1941 the situation had completely changed. I doubt that the German command had forseen France's rapid collapse or anticipated the Italian problems.
What I have read perhaps Rommel once he got "things going" might have thought of the southern pincer movement, though it is hard to imagine they could make it throught the mountains in the Southern USSR. The priority was to help the Italians first thus not letting them make any bigger fools of themselves in the battles, and Hitler himself was not very interested in the North Africa battles until it was too late, sending Tigers to Tunis when everything was all but lost 1942-43.And the German High Command otherwise was probably rather p**** because Rommel had a direct channel to Hitler so they might not be very interested in helping Rommel in trouble or with his plans to conquer the Middle East etc.
Well,as curious it may be ,before 1939,Germany had no war plans .(for a lot of obvious reasons) About the pincer movement,IMHO,this only was reverie : 1)the Germans never would be strong enough to march to Bagdad 2)the whole (mythical ) ME oil only was important for Armchair Strategists:Britain did not need this oil,and Germany could not use it . Whatever",Hitler's Weisungen" does not mention a pincer movement .
Fall Weiss(the attack on Poland) was worked out in the spring/summer of 1939,but was dependant on an agreement with the SU Fall Gelb (the attack in the west)was worked out in the autumn of 1939 Barbarossa was worked out in the summer/autumn of 1940. Before september (with the exception of Poland),Germany had no war plans .
Didn´t Hitler have an invasion plan of the Czechs in 1938 but the Munich congress stopped the planned invasion?!
Yes,you got me (extenuating circumstances being my bad memory),if I am not wrong,it was Fall Weiss (?) first version . If I may quibble (quibble is replacing my memory),the attack on CZ was stopped because the Czechs accepted the Munich decisions.
My grandparents told me a lot about Himmler, Goering and...Galland. According to them "Germany" (Nazi Germany) had only one plan: Goering's five year plan just before the war committed the nation to world war. It defeated the Great Depression by creditor commitments foreign invasions were the one and only salve for. Everything was based on that. The Prussian reinstatements were to these ends (OKH: they felt the debt could be recuperated by invading the Ukraine), OKW under Hitler's direction felt that oil resources could drive a military machine capable of dictating international policy as a superpower (the idea to secure Middle East oil reserves was only an abstract, sights were set on Romanian/Balkan oil reserves with a view to secure Caucasus/Caspian oil from Stalin's "house of cards" but that too was an abstract). In short "Germany's war plans" were entirely a case of no choice, no alternative. Versailles made absolutely certain of this, pre-blackshirt Italy, France and England were hell bent on economically destroying the nation, kicking in the door and claiming it was all just life. The Nazis were evil, there is no doubt, but without them Germany would not have survived the 30s as a nation, there is no doubt of that either. fyi this was also Wilson's take on the situation and why he withdrew from the League.
Vanir, I think you´re walking on thin ice now. I simply don´t think anything can be seen as a factor to make it acceptable that the nazis took the power in Germany. Of course it´s hindsight but as we have that power we should use it. Germany not surviving the 30´s as a nation without the nazis? Germany sure as ...did not survive with the nazis! And took millions of innocent people in Europe with them.And Germans are still paying for that. Just my thoughts...Oh C this is getting political again...
True, it would've been much better if the circumstantial proxy was a conscionable one and was something more than a quick fix which ultimately was no fix at all, but a descent into madness. However you can read Dr Martin Kitchen's work and that of several others which clearly describe Nazism as both aberrant and evolutionary, it was a largely mechanical situation, there were no Svengalis involved in truth. edit. and you're quite right, I could've worded that much better. Was coming down off a double shift, tired and web browsing, my apolegies for the confrontational presentation.
