GLIDERS?STUPID QUESTION?

sorry if this sounds stupid, but I've been reading WW2 for over 35 years, and have never really read in depth about gliders/training<><>my question<>did troops do real practice glider drops before the real assaults?? I'm thinking no, because the glider would be ruined, correct?? second, has anyone read first hand accounts of glider troops that said they were scared of landing in the glider??

 

The pilots did a lot of practice, but with gliders loaded with ballast to the loaded weight. IRRC the pilots who landed at the Orne bridges practised near Netheravon on Salisbuirty Plain onto a landing field taped to the correct dimensions.

Some glider troops did undertake practice flights., e.g. 211 Air Landing Battery were flown in by glider on one pre d Day exercise in March. These might have been to prove the concept rather than to familiarise the glider borne troops. After all the idea of glider troops was to be able to deploy ordinary infantry without specialist parachute training. They weren't doing anything in flight. embarkation and disembarkation could be practiced on the ground.

 

must've been hairy scary....much thanks for your knowledge and personal thoughts....it's not like they can correct any problems, unlike a powered aircraft...

 

I've often wondered that myself. Were they designed for re-use?

 

Oh most certainly the pilots trained in real gliders, and yes, the gliders were "meant" to be reusable.

During a glider pilot's "basic" training, he would often "fly" a TG-5, TG-6, TG-8, etc., training glider, or he might fly one of the light observation aircraft, L-2, L-3, L-4, etc., and shut the engine off so that he could perform a "dead stick"(unpowered) landing. After spending some time mastering his craft, he would then move on to a full size Waco CG-4 glider.

Of course, training, unlike combat, took place in very large open fields


But, accidents would often occur.

 

they had to be ''real'' good pilots , ''real'' birdmen..ty all replies

 

My Dad can remember the fields round his home being in his words filled with Horsa gliders. He lived near Brize Norton and Fairford plus many others.This is backed up by several of the older gents I knew having Horsa glider "sheds". I can remember them in the early 70's and that the last was bought by a museum as the man in question had about 4-5m of fuselage as a shed. I don't know if they were dropped with or without passengers though.

 

I'm sure the Europeans put them to good use!..or did the military gather them all back??anyone know?

 

They gathered the ones salvageable and burned the rest. That was the SOP

 

Glider pilots are real men.

 

My father was an airborne engineer and they had at least one glider flight for training. IIRC, he was scared stiff. It didn't help that the pilot affected to much nonchalance. They told him they'd kill him if he didn't settle down and fly with both hands!

 

burned??in Europe?

 

Not much else to do with them, of course, I am sure that the soldiers and local civilians stripped them of most if not all usable materials. But, as SirJahn stated they did attempt to salvage what they could, but those numbers were, of course, very low - of all they gliders that were released over Normandy, none of the Horsas were retrieved, and only 13 of the Wacos. In Holland, 256 gliders were brought back, and for Operation Varsity some 148 were returned.

http://www.mylubbock.us/docs/silent-wings-museum-file-library/retrievalsystem.pdf?sfvrsn=2
http://www.pointvista.com/WW2GliderPilots/gliderretrieval.htm

 

Your questions are very reasonable ! I've read many first-hand accounts of Arnhem and Normandy - obviously some men were scared but overall the process of training by 1944 seems to have been quite thorough. I think from the accounts I've read that the type of operation involved ( ie landing behind enemy lines with relatively light weaponry ) fear of the actual flight and landing was secondary to the thought of action on the ground.

A lot of men seem to have read books or slept on the flight ( some going to Arnhem are known to have played chess ) and many were airsick ( caused by the bumpy flight and smells inside the glider ).

The worst to land seem to have been the heavy gliders ( Hamilcars ) carrying Jeeps, anti-tank guns etc. The heavy cargo could, and often did, break free on landing and would cause terrible injuries to the pilots.

By all accounts, glider pilots needed to be very level-headed guys. Not an easy job.

 

I'm not so certain that those gilder passangers playing chess, sleeping etc. were as carefree as one may think. Those people may have felt the need to show indifference to danger in order to bolster themselves and their buddies. When you were in a glider you were a helpless, slow target. As a former infantryman, I could see myself being very impatient to land where I could have some charge of my fate.

 

I wasn't suggesting that these men were striking a pose - I probably didn't make myself clear. I meant to refer to my previous paragraph in that they weren't trying to offset thoughts of the actual glider flight - more the dangers they would face on landing.

 

yes, pilots had to be cool...seems like a simple crosswind/obstacle/estimation/etc could very easily make things go bad fast...as stated before, the troops didn't have too many training flights?

 

good point Martin, about landing vs ground action...seems logical

 

Not sure how they did it in the British Army, but glider-men in the US Army were not volunteers. The paratroopers were, but not any of the glider riders. They did not receive jump pay nor did they have the paratrooper type uniforms that the jumpers had. They were basic infantry who arrived on the battlefield in a glider. That meant that there was a lot of in-fighting between the glider and parachute regiments when not in combat.

 

327 Glider Infantry Regiment historian here. I like the questions. Several things.

1. Glider Infantry men could not volunteer for glider service. Paratroopers were volunteers into the parachutes. Many glidermen were volunteers and not drafted. Paratroopers also could be drafted. That is a standard misconception.

2. Going into Normandy, glidermen wore standard infantry uniforms. From Market Garden on the glider guys wore the same uniforms as paratroopers including jump boots.

3. Market Garden on, Glidermen received the "extra pay".

4. Paratroopers moved to the GIR in the summer of 45 as units were disbanded absolutely preferred jumping over gliding in the "flying coffins".

5. Glider Pilots didn't receive a tremendous amount of training. Co Pilots were generally infantrymen given instructions just before take off. Some of the pilots didn't pass flight school for the motored aircraft.

6. I have to go back and look at the records, but 1/3 of the gliders did not make the landing zone for Market Garden for the 101st on D+2 due to bad weather and better German tactics. The flights on D+1 fared much better.

7. Few 101st glidermen glided into Normandy. Most went by ship landing on D+1. A few on D Day. Landings were at Utah for the 101.

8. A glider regiment was the actual main assault force that moved into Carentan. Glidermen held 1/2 of the perimeter at Bastogne and participated in 4 of the 6 major Bastogne fights including the pivotal battles at Marvie. The 327 held the west perimeter of Opheusden against repeated tank assaults after quickly relieving the 506.

9. Glidermen sat on their rifle stocks to protect themselves as bullets ripped through the plywood floor of the gliders during Market Garden.

10. From inside the glider, the take off would shake the glider terribly from the wash of the props of the tow. To the soldier, it seemed like they were slinged into the air rather than a gradual take off. The gliders would fly above and behind the tow to stay out of the wash. Soldiers would pass the bucket to vomit or relieve themselves only to have the contacts blow back in when the bucket was emptied out the door.

11. The glider regiments, though like the paratroopers were a light infantry unit designed to fight behind enemy lines, were somewhat more heavily armed than the paratroopers. The 101 paratroop regiments had 2 Battalions. The 327 GIR had 3.

Hope this helps.