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Green Beret Hero Was A WW II Nazi Decorated Hero!

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Spaniard, Mar 17, 2010.

  1. LJAd

    LJAd Well-Known Member

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    On Wikipedia (not in the links ;))I have found the unit in which he served :Freiwilligen Bataillon Nord Ost and also the highest German award :D:D:Iron Cross 2nd class ,the lowest German award :D:D.
    Btw :there is nothing new of the story :the information on Wilipedia is from 1998 :D
     
  2. Kruska

    Kruska Member

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  3. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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    Not at all, what I was asking was what kind of labeling did members of the S.S. receive. (I'm more so talking about Waffen than the others), was it simply guilt by association or a full on criminal charge? Every time I ask this question you guys simply claim denialism and it is far from it.

    I refuse to call a specific person, any person, (someone seen as a "hero" of sorts by a few nations) something without having enough facts/knowledge about the specific subject in question.
     
  4. Mehar

    Mehar Ace

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  5. edhunter76

    edhunter76 Member

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    SS armed forces WAS NOT criminal organization by any means - plain and simple!

    Lauri Törni left to Germany after the Winter war because he wanted to carry on his military career - he wanted to be a professional soldier. Maybe he thought that finnish army couldn't give him professional training enough and Germany offered to many men opportunity to serve in professional army. Many men left from Finland like from many other countries too. They were promised decent salaries and very good opportunities.

    He returned to Finland when continuation war started in 1941. He also wounded very badly, but was able to return. He was decorated with the highest military decoration in Finland. When Finland negotiated separate peace with SU, Törni is said to be very disappointed. It is believed that he hated the communists very deeply and that is why he returned to the SS in '44. It is commonly known that his unit in SS did not commit any war crimes like most of the other SS armed units didn't.

    He ended up in the allied prison camp and in Finland he was sentenced to prison in six years. There were nothing left in Finland for him and at that time he was also considered as a war criminal. As soon as possible he left to USA under the name of Larry A. Thorne. He gained reputation very quickly and was promoted several times by the US army. He worked as a trainer in several US army training camps and once more he went to war when Vietnam war broke out. He returned back to the USA and continued his military trainer career until he was called back to arms and sent to Vietnam second time. He disappeared near the Laos border in 18.10.1965 when his helicopter went down. He was declared KIA a year later. At that time he was US army Major. His remains was found in 1999 and he is buried in the Arlington military cemetery.

    "Finland betrayd Törni, but he never betrayed Finland. A man who stood for his principles, ideologies and gained reputation and respect in three different armies in war for freedom"

    OS LARRY THORNE PERINNEKILTA R.Y - LARRY THORNE
    OS LARRY THORNE PERINNEKILTA R.Y - Hero in Vietnam
    Larry Alan Thorne, Major, United States Army
    US Special Forces Legend Larry Thorne: Green Beret hero who had served under three flags
     
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  6. Tomcat

    Tomcat The One From Down Under

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    I think we need to clear something up for everyone. The SS was directly part of the Nazi Party, and therefore Nazi's as a whole, and therefore like the Nazi Party was a criminal organisation as set down in the Control Council Law No. 10.

    Control Council Law No. 10: Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity - Resources

    However, something else needs to be cleared up.

    No one is denying the Nazi party were criminals who broke basic Humanitarian Laws, and no one is doubting that the SS as a whole also broke these laws.

    However it does appear that with the exception of a few the members in this thread do believe that no one SS member will be or can be prosecuted and treated as a war criminal unless it is proved that he was.

    Innocent until proven guilty as the saying goes.

    If this man was truly a war hero who did his job as a soldier without committing these crimes, other then simply being a member of the organisation then I believe he still deserves to be called a hero for his nation. If he felt that joining the SS and figthting within what was considered a well trained unit of men was the best he could do for his nation, he still deserves to be called a hero, AS LONG AS HE DID NOT COMMIT ANY HUMANITARIAN CRIME, NOT SIMPLY GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.
     
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  7. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    HENRIK HOLAPPA'S Finnish Green Beret Larry Thorne: The Only Waffen-SS Officer Buried at Arlington Cemetery


    The war had ended in Europe in May 1945. The All-Lies were hunting all over in Europe for alleged “war criminals.” The Waffen-SS was outlawed and captured SS soldiers were moved into huge prisoner camps. Some of them were just shot or starved to death without any trial. Former SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Lauri Törni was also captured -- by the Americans and British troops -- but he was able to escape and return to Finland.

    http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:http://wikileaks.org/leak/aryan-nation-2009/msg00253.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauri_T%C3%B6rni

    http://mikecleverley.com/more_on_larry_thorne


    Real US Footage of Thorne

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwehrLOX9hc



    The Arlington National Cemetery is in Virginia, across the Potomac River from the nation's capital, Washington DC. Arlington Cemetery contains about 270,000 graves, most of them belonging to individuals who served in the U.S. armed forces. Arlington's most famous grave, accompanied by an eternal flame, is that of President John F. Kennedy. The day before the interment, a memorial service will be arranged. Larry A. Thorne, the name by which Törni is remembered in the United States, was a captain and a Green Beret in the U.S. Special Forces. Special Forces will also organise a tribute to their hero. After Törni's status was changed from "missing in action" to "presumably killed in action", a memorial service was already organised in Helsinki back in 1967.
    http://www2.hs.fi/english/archive/news.asp?id=20030617IE9





    The true scoop on Koivisto's views (English) & (Swedish) is at :​



    The Finnisches Freiwilligen SS-Bataillon "Nordost" may be a delicate subject for some. For those who have historical interest, a very complete account.​
    A shorter account (well worth reading) is at:

     
  8. mikebatzel

    mikebatzel Dreadnaught

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    Why are you linking to neo-nazi sites Spaniard?
     
  9. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    Which One or ones???? I just got Linked to those Site since they all had information on Him and book references.
    Let me Know I'll Remove. Ok I figured it out One Link, I removed and added More.
     
  10. Biak

    Biak Adjutant Patron  

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    If one thing is apparent it is that the mere mention of the SS or Nazi party provokes deep felt animosity in some and admiration in others. If someone wants to tout the achievements of an individual all aspects should be considered. As an example, Werner Von Braun is proclaimed a great man because of his help in rocket technology but I'm torn in my opinion due to how he acquired his knowledge. What amazes me is how quickly an enemy can become a friend simply by changing sides. What is behind the change is what interests me. In my eyes and again my opinion only, he (Von Braun), was an narcissistic opportunist. He gets adoration, fame and what have you, never mind the destruction his work caused. And before we go off on another tangent I'm only using this as one example.
    But back on task, There is no way a topic like this one can be discussed without deep felt emotions arising. We can debate 'ad infinitum' and never agree. A soldier who leaves his Country to fight for another raises questions to me as to the real or true reason to his leaving.This question is one I'd like to ask; If he truly believes in his Country why leave. Was he escaping from something? Distancing himself from previous actions? Or; was he a "glory hound" wanting to fight for the sake on fighting, that's another story.
    I see one of us has been "DD'ed" and I hope reinstatement comes soon. There are areas of WW2 that harbor deep resentment and outright hatred when brought up. Sometimes it is difficult for us to see how it effects those who are not from our own Country. I could go on but I'm trying to "check" myself.
     
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  11. Fury 1991

    Fury 1991 New Member

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    I should have chosen my words more carefully and said former German soldiers. A poor choice of words on my part. I believe Thorne was in no way a Nazi. I believe he had a deep hatred for communism and dedicated his life towards opposing this particular ideology. He took advantage of every opportunity to do so. That is my take on this anyways.
     
  12. edhunter76

    edhunter76 Member

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    I would put my money on "glory hunting", that is my guess why he left Finland and joined the SS, at first at least. Another reason might be his will to get better military training. Finnish army was very poor during the Winter war and finnish army was more than happy to get men to military training abroad. They were supposed to return home and educate finnish army by what they have learned. Waffen-SS also promised quite good salaries and opportunities to foreign troops.

    After the WWII things changed radically in Finland. Finland had Soviet comission in Finland that oversaw that Finland would put into "justice" so called war criminals which Törni was also considered. Finnish government was more than willing to do basically everything what Soviets wanted. Also, as a former SS officer he would have been under very close surveillance by the Finnish and obviously by the Soviets as well. He had no place in finnish society anymore, no more war heroes honor - he had absolutely nothing left in Finland anymore. That is why he left Finland. Why he went to the USA? Well, before the war a lot of people moved to US from Finland and maybe he didn't feel safe in Europe. He also wanted to start a whole new life. He tried to do different jobs, but he didn't get any succes in anything he did. Finally he decided to do what he knew best, to be professional soldier. So, he enlisted to US army.

    I honestly don't think there's nothing more than this, no secrets, no hidden motivations, nothing more.

    "Finland betrayd Törni, but he never betrayed Finland. A man who stood for his principles, ideologies and gained reputation and respect in three different armies in a war for freedom"
     
  13. Skipper

    Skipper Kommodore

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    and uncle Addi was a pacifist and the Das Reich SS members were afraid of matches....... :rolleyes:

    Edhunter76?, I understand you have respect for a veteran and so do I, but saying the Waffen SS did not commit war crimes is something I cannot accept. Go tell that to the Survivors of Oradour for Instance. Even if they did not personnaly commit crimes they belonged to a criminal organisation.

    To the other rogues, please do not start this "elite" debate again, the forum is already full of this. :panzerpenguin:
     
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  14. edhunter76

    edhunter76 Member

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    Ok, Waffen-SS was obviously a part of criminal organization, but Waffen-SS itself wasn't put together to commit war crimes as some of the other SS organizations were. I basically meant just this: Waffen-SS wasn't build to commit war crimes. We all know that some units did commit war crimes like many other German units did, so I'm very sorry that I put my words quite wrong there, honestly. I basically just tried to defend Törni's unit.
     
  15. Spaniard

    Spaniard New Member

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    I do believe that Thorne dedicated his life in fighting the Russians no matter which Army he joined. And to Join the US Army would be a logical choice since US and Russia had begun The Cold War, this meant he could still Fight the Russians in his mind, even though WWII was over. I think we can safely state he Hated Russian Ideology or anything mainly Russian.
     
  16. edhunter76

    edhunter76 Member

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    Every Finn hated the Russians after those two wars, so you are absolutely right about it.
     

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