Ground Attack Aircraft

What is the greatest ground attack aircraft of the war? I would say it would be the Ju-87 Stuka. It was multipurpose and was highly accurate. It's only pitfall was it's speed but then again, that is what made it a fantastic gun platform similiar to today's A-10 ground attack plane. My second choice would be the JU-88 but it was not used as a tank buster whereas the Ju-87 could do all of what the Ju-88 was capable except the speed. What do you think?

 

Speaking of which, I just bought a nice press photo of a flight of Stukas. Soon as I get it in, I will send a copy to Otto to post here.

 

At least for Germany's sake it would have to be the Ju 87. The Ju 88 was too heavy. For an excellent kanon armed bird I would choose the Hs 129. Low and mean, a typical armoured bathtub that saw much action. The Panzerstaffel's with the Ju 87 G series and the Flak 18 were hard to beat though, but the Mk 103 equipped Hs 129's could blow a T-34 turret right off it's mount.
For the Russians I would have to say the Il-2 of course.

E.

 

hmmm the Stuka was a good plane...but by the end of the war was obsolete and so thus was useless. The Il-2 Sturmevick i would think was the absolute best of the war. Strong, fast, powerful. By the end of the war the germans lacked in good ground attack aircraft compared to the allies.
Next for ground attack i would pick the P-47 thunderbolt. Although first used as a fighter...once the p-51 came on the scene it became a ground attack plane...and it excelled...just like the Il-2 it was fast strong and powerful.

[ 12 June 2001: Message edited by: Ron ]

 

Quite correct, and I agree. The problem with the Stuka (for the Russians) was the fact they were excellent in the dive and quite accurate. The problem (for the Germans) was that they were too easy of targets and were easy to shoot down.

 

Does it have to be German?

If not, please save a thought for Tempests, P-47 Thunderbolts, P-51s, Corsairs, and maybe even the P-39 on the Eastern front. Yes, the Stuka was effective on many fronts, but God help them if they ran into an allied fighter squadron. They were extremely slow.

Also, believe it or not - the FW190A comes to mind. There was an effective tank buster version made which was well liked by the pilots as well.

 

I usually pick the German aircraft, tanks etc, because I am more familiar with them and of course US weapons.

The Thunderbolt, Mustang and Corsairs were all very effective in ground attack and I think the Aircobra was also. The FW-190 was an all around great aircraft.

My all time favorite is the P-51 Mustang, I love that aircraft, but, the ME, and the FW's are also favorites of mine.

Comparison with favorites in tanks: American favorite is the Sherman, German favorite is the Tiger II.

Other Arms US: Colt .45--German P-38.
"" "" "": M1 Garand--Mauser K-98//98-K
"" "" "": Trench Broom--MP-38/40
"" "" "": BAR--STG-44 or MP-43 or FG-42.
"" "" "": 76 MM Howitzer--German 88.

I cant help it, I love German guns and US guns, over any other countries weapons.

 

The Fw 190 F and G were the replacement for the Stuka D's. They had a much better power perfoemance ratio obviously and could be fitted with rockets which would have broken the wings off the Ju 87. Fast and manuverable, on the OST front, the Fw's had the dual role of attacking ground columns as well as taking on the Russian air force.
An advantage with the Ju 87 late in the war was of course the hard hitting Flak 18 3.7cm equipped weapon which was a death blow even on the JS series tanks. As the schlactgruppen changed over to the Fw 190, only single staffeln kept the Ju 87 G's for tank busitng purposes. The majority of the Ju 87 D's then became used in the night ground attack role with many other slow obsolete a/c. A very good advantage against the Soviets who did not have radar equipped night fighters and even so against the RAF and US P-61's which had the tendancy to overshoot their target(s) due to the almost stalling speed of the Ju 87.

Horrido !

E.

 

Without any doubt in my mind I can truly say that the P-47 Thunderbolt was the best ground attack aircraft of World War 2. In a previous post I in great detail discussed fighters and I personally favor the F4u Corsair, but the Thunderbolt wins here. The P-47 had a great dive capability, was armored, had a massive 8 .50 cal barrage followed by a mix of bombs and/or 10 5 inch rockets. The P-47 had excellent transitions from the dive portion to the climb and could take the punishment the Germans dished out.

As a side note, the B-25 must be mentioned here. The B-25 was redesignated as a low level ground attack aircraft. It was fitted with 8 forward firing .50 cal and have a hugh payload of 500 pound bombs. With the development of retarded bombs the B-25 was deadly. Mostly used in the Pacific, I cant imagine what a flight of B-25s at 100 feet would do to a tank column dropping 100 500 pound retarded bombs.

 

Oooh, here's a nice thread I've found - must add my two ha'porth!

For me, the ultimate, fear-inducing ground attack aircraft of WWII is the wonderful Hawker Typhoon. Four 20mm cannon ( those big Hispano-Suizas, too ) plus eight 60lb rockets. And a twenty-four cylinder engine making one hell of a noise. Just ask any veteran of Falaise. ( I'm sure our colleague Greenjacket would agree ).

I've always been intrigued by the Henschel HS-129. I believe it was mainly used in Russia, not Europe, so I don't know much about it ?

 

Hallo, gentlemen!

I have many favourites in this branch:

Ju-87, because of its accuracy, psichologycal impact and charm (the first version). And the version armed with that 37mm gun was absolutely astonishing (ask Ob. Hans Ulrich Rudel if not...), if we had had more of them at Kursk... well, well.

Ju-88, to be a medium bomber I admire its versatility; because it was manouvrable, fast and powerful.

Hs-129, I think it was a very good air-to-ground attack aeroplane. I read that some were armed with a 75mm PAK, ist it true?

Fw-190, I had read also that it replaced the Stuka as a dive bomber, not as charming but not as vulnerable. It was such a good fighter that it could attack the ground and later shot down aeroplanes.

Me-110, Heavy weapons and dive-bombing capability. It showed to be a very nice aeroplane to attack the ground in Poland, France and Russia. (I could not stop mentioning it, could I?)

Il-2, Just awesome. Strong, good and in enormous quantity (the most produced aeroplane in History), the "terror of the Panzers".

P-47, I was such a strong and powerful aeroplane, armed heavily and very fast (I have read that it could reach Mach I in a dive, is it true?)

P-51, Here we have the best fighter of WWII attacking the ground. Very nice results.

P-38, Strong and big, nice for bombing at low height.

Hawker Hurricane, when 40mm cannons were put on the wings, they attacked sucessfully the Axis' tanks in Africa.

Hawker Thypoon, Is it worth to mention how good it was? These aeroplanes smashed the German reinforcements in Normandy and even killed field marshall Von Bock...

DSB, it is good to mention the Pacific theatre...

Aichi ? "Val", the Stuka's cousin. I love the plane, accurate and pretty...

 

Choosing one on the Allied side, I would have to choose the Sturmovik. The P-47s were numerous but the dreaded Sturmoviks could not be shot down and I am sure if you queried German vets who fought on both fronts, they would agree. The Flying Tank just could not be shot down. Overall, I still choose the Stuka

 

Indeed he would. In terms of sheer quantities of armour destroyed in Western Europe, the Typhoon was the most effective ground-attack aircraft in service after it took on the tactical role.

However, a mention ought to go to the P-40 series, which although never as glamourous or exposed as the famous as some other British and American fighter-bombers, served doggedly and with extreme reliability in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and also in the Far East. I believe it served in tactical strike and recon roles in more theatres than any other Allied aircraft, although I may be mistaken.

The Stuka is worthy of a mention, although I would not put it down as the greatest strike aircraft, it was often too slow, underarmed and armoured and incapable of defending itself, and the increased drag of extra armour and outboard gun pods like the 37mm worsened this. The vast losses over Britain during 1940 and then over Europe bear this out (then again, it also had enormous success on the Eastern Front, but the two theatres are hard to compare). However, it deserves credit for being massively intimidating, terrifying, and for being possibly the first dedicated aircraft of a combined-arms doctrine.

From what I have read, it had seemed to me that the P-51 was too lightly built and underarmoured to really withstand intense low-level flak and small arms' fire. As with the P-38 Lightning, the liquid cooled engines were a liability under heavy fire where a single ruptured coolant line could lead to engine seizure worryingly quickly. The P-47 did not have this problem, as the enormous air-cooled radial engine was very sturdy and durable.

 

Very interesting discussion, everyone.

Agree with PzJgr, despite numerous shortcomings there's definitely 'something' about the JU 87. I must get around to reading Rudel's book.

By the way, how was von Bock killed, then ?

 

I don't know about von Bock specifically, but Typhoons once attacked the HQ of the German 15th Army at Dordrecht in the Netherlands on the 24th October 1944. Three waves of "Tiffies" killed 70 staff officers and 2 Generals. A Typhoon also strafed Rommel's staff car in July '44 and severely wounded him. Also, Major General von Gersdorff was wounded by a P-38.

Ground attack aircraft had some fairly important victims.

 

Il-2 claims and there are many of them.....

58 from Major Erich Rudorffer
36 from Hpt. Helmut Lipfet
90 from Hpt. Joachim Brendel
60 from Oblt. Günther Josten
10 from Obst Johannes Steinhoff
28 from Oblt. Hans Beisswenger
38 from Lt. Peter Duttmann
64 from Hpt. Franz Schall
16 from Oblt. Walter Wolfrum
32 from Oblt. Hans Waldmann
50 from Major Johannes Wiese

and the list goes on, which I have of at least 8 more Ritterkreuzträgers, so a person can gather even with pilots scoring 20 or less victories on the Ost front that there had to be Il-2's included.

The Ju 87 was updated to the more streamlined Ju 87D series which was a bit faster, a more potent 20mm kanon and better visibility and armor for the crewmembers. Some units had the D until the end of the war. Each ground attack unit which had the Ju 87 D on hand was supplemented with the Ju 87G-1 and G-2 Knonvogel with the Flak 18 3.7cm waffen. The make up with this tank buster was one staffel(squadron) which was called 10 (pz.) staffel. The Ju 87's were thus replaced starting in 1944 with the Fw 190F and G-series. many being equipped with the devastating R4-M missiles, 6/7 under each wing. No Soviet tank could withstand the effects of these killers....the a/c were covered by the usual Fw 190A-8 fighter protecting against the Soviet Mig's and Yak's.
The Hs 129 that Friedrich referred to was an armored bath tub for sure and was the predecessor of the US A-10 Warthog(Thunderbolt). Great armor for the pilot and an array of armament selections, the 3cm Mk 103 being the most used and effective. Trials of the 7.5cm were tested with lousy results. Increasing drag, terrible speed and manuverabilty in preformance, and if the pilot missed the first shot, then he over flew his target, the 75mm kanon firing rate was way too slow. Essentially and excellent a/c but with faulty French engines the a/c went onto be quite the tank killer although most of it's career on the Ost front did not involve any air cover protection and to this point it suffered.

E

 

Interesting stuff.

Not wishing to be 'nit-picky' Greenjacket, but I thought it's never been clearly established who 'got' Rommel in Normandy. Some years ago, 'After The Battle' combed through the combat reports and decided that it was 'Chris' LeRoux flying a Spitfire Mk IX ?

 

Yes, there is some controversy, some say a Spitfire and others a Typhoon. All seem to agree it was an RAF pilot of the 2nd Tactical Air Force, however. I'm trying to find my original source.

 

Hallo!

Martin, Generalfeldmarschall Fedor von Bock was killed on May 1st 1945 when he was on the way to Reichspräsident Karl Dönitz's headquarters to volunteer and take part in the new provisional government. He was heading North in Schleswig-Holstein in his car, I think a BMW 38 with his chofer, wife and daughter. Then, some British aeroplanes (I do not know exactly which, but most probably Thypoons) attacked the lonely car and destroyed it. All of them were killed. The 65-years-old field marshall agonised of his wounds for two days and died in May 3rd 1945, five days earlier than the war was over.

As I have mentioned, my grandfather was Von Bock's personal secretary and good friend. I have a lot of respect and admiration for the man. And it really annoys me the way he was killed. He was not inside a tank, or a half-track, or an army's lorry, he was in a bloody civil car!

 

Thanks, Friedrich.
I never knew that at all - very interesting.

It reminds me of a colour camera-gun film-clip shown in, I think, the famous docu-series 'World At War'. Taken either from a P47 or P51 at the end of the war in Europe, it shows a 'strafe' of an innocent horse and cart in flat countryside, looks like Northern Germany.
The bullets streak across a field and one has to look away as the 'target' is hit.

Another senseless incident in war, but it gives an unforgettable image of the devastating power of such a low-level attack.